Offseason Discussion - Positions Players/Bench

[Fritz]

I wish they would just get rid of Hanley so I could stop rooting for this Mickey Mouse organization.

[Bobbob1313]

I wish the people who keep saying they are done with this "Mickey Mouse organization" were being serious. It would make things more interesting. Don't get me wrong, the posturing to see who is more disappointed in the Front Office has made for great reading over the past 3 days, but it rings kind of hollow knowing that each and every person who has posted it is going to be right back here in April.

It feels like there is nothing at stake, is all I'm saying. We should just keep track of everyone who has said it and then when the JJ deal inevitably falls through, we can see who has the strongest convictions.

Angry internets dude 1:"I'm cancelling my season tickets!"
Angry internets dude 7:"Oh yeah? Well I'm burning Loria in effigy!"
Angry internets dude 28:"Oh yeah, well I'm gonna rape Sampson!"

Yahtzee!


Also, when we say "Mickey Mouse organization", do we mean because they don't spend money or because they do dumb stuff? I would assume it's the first one, but the Cantu thing isn't really a money move since it comes down to whether you can keep Cantu AND someone or just Uggla. So sure, it's a money move, but it's more of a baseball move driven by money, which really isn't a Mickey Mouse thing, in my eyes.

Whether you think it's dumb is a different story. Personally, I think the best possible move given our resources is to get rid of Uggla and Cantu and just resign Nick Johnson and go with an infield of Johnson, Coghlan, Hanley, and Gaby. That wouldn't be a very good defensive infield, but I think it's better than whatever combination of Uggla or Cantu would give us.

[Ramp]

Pretty sure no one has said they are done with the team (maybe Swift has but I think his was more like "I wonder why I keep following this team" or something)

Also, when we say "Mickey Mouse organization", do we mean because they don't spend money or because they do dumb stuff? I would assume it's the first one, but the Cantu thing isn't really a money move since it comes down to whether you can keep Cantu AND someone or just Uggla. So sure, it's a money move, but it's more of a baseball move driven by money, which really isn't a Mickey Mouse thing, in my eyes.

Mickey Mouse Organization is in reference to the fact they don't spend money on what's important and when they do spend money, it's on 2 year deals for yahoos like Wes Helms.

Also, you make this board out to be like a bunch of morons (again). Kind of getting old.

[Bobbob1313]

My post was mostly in jest, calm down. I wasn't trying to make anyone out to be a moron. I thought it was sufficiently ridiculous enough in nature to get that point across.

This is also a post that is joking!

I do feel like Mickey Mouse organization is being thrown around a bit too much here, though. I feel we're more like a Goofy organization. I mean, Mickey ran a pretty tight ship. Goofy seems like a more apt analogy.

If anyone is a Mickey Mouse Organization, it'd be, like the Yankees, and they'd specifically be Mickey Mouse from The Sorcerer's Apprentice.

[Chewford]

I happen to like the Mickey Mouse Organization. Up was a quality movie and EPCOT pwns. Plus the Mickey Mouse Organization just spent millions on Space Mountain, which is quite awesome and important. Josh Johnson was like the Space Mountain of the Marlins but we didn't spend any money on him. In the future, the Marlins will never find themselves off-world.

[Fish and Chips]

I dont know what to believe, this entire offseason has contradicted on so much issue and reports

the marlins dont believe in signing SP to long term deal/the marlins are interested in chapman

the marlins 1st goal is to trade uggla for ML talent/the marlins can afford uggla, and may keep him

the 2009 payroll will be under 36 mil/the payroll was be over 40 mil

blah, blah, blah

[Chewford]

I dont know what to believe, this entire offseason has contradicted on so much issue and reports

If you believe this is a Mickey Mouse organization, maybe you should believe in the power of your dreams.

WISHESSSSS!!

[Jay]

People here are reacting to rumors and statements made to the media way to seriously. These things should be taken as some information to what is going on with the organization but nothing is final. I see no problem about flipping out when JJ is traded or signed to a 1 year deal but the fact is nothing has been finalized and this week the front office and sosnick may not be discussing a contract but by the start of the season a 4 year deal may be reached. My point is people need to stop reacting to headlines that have not said anything concrete and acting like that is what is going to happen. These headlines should be taken as a foreshadowing of what may happen not what will happen.

[Bobbob1313]

One thing to consider is that that 3/22 figure was used one time and it was completely unsourced or cited. And it was, I believe, from the Palm Beach Post, which is barely a real newspaper. I think they print on papyrus.

[Swifty]

PBP broke the Beckett trade, and the McKeon mutiny and just about everything else. When it comes to the fishies, especially front office stuff, I trust 'em.

[lou]

I'd define Mickey Mouse organization as drafting guys that will sign at/below slot and not best prospective available (How sweet would Beckham or Smoak be right now?), not tendering arbitration to Class B free agents who will not take it and will get 2-3 year deals (see A. Rhodes, soon N. Johnson) thus not getting us a compensatory 1st rounder, not buying out clear super stars like Cabrea, Willis (yea, if you buy him out even him blowing up is not that big of a liability), and Beckett early on, and when given the "second" opportunity to sign a guy, see Josh Johnson right now, they still balk at the notion of signing a player.

But I mean, it's not over yet. The biggest mistake they've made was not giving Cabrera 5-6 years pre or post 2005 when he was reasonable. I think that's the only thing that is really mind boggling and indefensible.

Tender NJ, sign JJ, don't give Gload that much, and if Coghlan, Maybin, Volstad, West, etc., are awesome in 2010, buy out at least 4 years and tac on FA options ala James Shields/Grady Sizemore.

If they do these simple things that is both safe and smart, I'm cool. If not, Mickey Mouse it is and I guess this stadium isn't the cure all some of us hoped.

[Swifty]

Yeah, that's the thing that kills me. We've had the chance to show we've learned from our mistakes (Beckett, Cabrera) and we keep botching it.

I know that insanity is literally repeating the same event and expecting different results, but at some point, when you really are talking about the closest thing to a zero sum game you can muster among a collective group of people and not just two participants, you'd hope that there'd be lessons learned.

[wanks1212]

knowing it will never happen because he's a "bad influence" and other such nonsense....miguel cabrera's available. sad thing is, they could probably make it work with a $50 million payroll. oh wellz.

[Party]

Here is another legitimate piece of nonsense to consider: Will Miguel Cabrera finish out his contract?

It might not be a remote possibility, but I think it is more likely with Cabrera.

[lou]

Yeah, that's the thing that kills me. We've had the chance to show we've learned from our mistakes (Beckett, Cabrera) and we keep botching it.

I know that insanity is literally repeating the same event and expecting different results, but at some point, when you really are talking about the closest thing to a zero sum game you can muster among a collective group of people and not just two participants, you'd hope that there'd be lessons learned.

My problem is those mistakes were mainly based on payroll and not really being able to take a risk. Let's look at Dontrelle. Assuming we are on the same payroll constraints, he made $7 million in 2008 and $10 million this past season. Where would we be if we had those liabilities and the same payroll (let's ignore for a second that 2008 payroll rockets to $29 million and 2009 to $43 million with these deals). We'd be screwed if we had to keep the team together at our overall salary cost with Dontrelle on the books. I can understand this. Maybe they are crazy in having salary so low, but if that's how much they can pay, I'm just going to accept that.

So the problem, with the stadium and expected $70 million salary. This is enough to pay Johnson in 2012 and 2013, and if he gets hurt? Oh well. We'd still be able to afford a better than replacement level (see Vanden Hurk, Anibal) starting pitching staff. If we're viewing contracts as potential risks and land mines, a larger salary fixes the ability to take "risks."

So I wonder, is this repeating the same event, the reasoning may be different?

-Before, it had to have been mainly payroll
-Now, this may be a philosophical issue to not granting a 4 year deal to a pitcher, we've just never seen this before.

Which still goes along the "their stupid" line of thought, because we're not going to seriously contend with a collection of 1-5 year pitchers. We're going to need to take RISKS and sign veteran pitchers and relievers and mix youth around them. I just don't see how JJ isn't the perfect guy to do this with. He's off surgery 2 years, is enormous and body can take a pounding, has a great throwing motion, and he's fucking awesome. In a hypothetical 4/$40 deal, if he's healthy for 2 1/2 seasons at a 3.50 rate, I call that breaking even. I'm taking my chances. I wouldn't give Ricky anywhere near this, but JJ. Yes.

I seriously hope this is posturing.