2019-2020 Offseason Discussion

[Nick]

Yeah, I don’t think it would impact a bunch of guys, but it could impact at least a couple.

I would say if the club gets off to bad start, we could see Harrison and Lewin, within the first 20 games, maybe even Jesus Sanchez. And quickly trying to move on from guys like Aguilar and Villar.

[fish16]

Yeah, I don’t think it would impact a bunch of guys, but it could impact at least a couple.

has there been any indication of service time ramifications in that case? How is that gonna work this year in terms of how it affects these players team control.

[rmc523]

has there been any indication of service time ramifications in that case? How is that gonna work this year in terms of how it affects these players team control.

Presumably it would begin their service time just like normal, right?

I haven't read anything about changes to service time rules as far as calling players up. I do seem to recall something about service time being treated on a percentage basis in a shortened season, but I could be making that up, and I'm too lazy to look it up lol.

[sports24/7]

has there been any indication of service time ramifications in that case? How is that gonna work this year in terms of how it affects these players team control.

I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere, but it does look pretty likely that the most action these guys are going to get would be some instructional league games. If that's the case, and the service time doesn't change, I think you have to seriously weigh the benefits of getting them at bats and eating the service time, vs saving the service time, but essentially wasting a year of development.

[Lee Stone]

I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere, but it does look pretty likely that the most action these guys are going to get would be some instructional league games. If that's the case, and the service time doesn't change, I think you have to seriously weigh the benefits of getting them at bats and eating the service time, vs saving the service time, but essentially wasting a year of development.

It's only me, of course, but I think the Marlins would have been better served to play J Sanchez, Lewin Diaz, and Monte Harrison this season instead of signing Dickerson, Aguilar, and Villar (esp with 20/20 and 2020 hindsight).

[fish16]

I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere, but it does look pretty likely that the most action these guys are going to get would be some instructional league games. If that's the case, and the service time doesn't change, I think you have to seriously weigh the benefits of getting them at bats and eating the service time, vs saving the service time, but essentially wasting a year of development.

that is such an interesting decision in my opinion. obviously they wouldnt be completely staying away from the game but i find instructional games to be so much less likely to be as helpful as real minor league games. you could look at it as a wasted opportunity or a way to prolong this young cores cost controlled status in the future. if the season is so short where these guys wont make an impact i think id lean towards not promoting them and trying to make the best out of a lost year. this only really effects jazz, sixto, cabrera, jesus sanchez, monte, and maybe lewin but id be so interested to look back at how they handle this year and what impact it made on the rebuild in like 4-5 years.

- - - - - - - - - -

It's only me, of course, but I think the Marlins would have been better served to play J Sanchez, Lewin Diaz, and Monte Harrison this season instead of signing Dickerson, Aguilar, and Villar (esp with 20/20 and 2020 hindsight).

depends on how service time is handled and how this will impact their future arbitration and free agent years. this could be a complete disaster or it could be a blessing in diguise where this front office doesnt rush these guys and waste potential impactful team controlled years.

[rmc523]

I was able to speak with a source recently, and he agreed that it'd be terrible for the sport to not come to an agreement (obviously), and was totally on board with the mindset that it's so easy for baseball to put itself at the forefront of attention by being the first sport back, and the only one operating. He also agrees with both the sentiment that the players have been done a disservice under Tony Clark, and that Manfred hasn't been good for the sport.

I wasn't able to get anything juicy, but it sounds like there's not much to report really - that owners are on one side, and players on the other side, and they're not wanting to budge. He's hopeful that things will happen, and they're starting to open up facilities for players to get back into things (like the Marlins have done). They were able to avoid furloughs but had to do pay cuts.
It was a very interesting conversation that unfortunately didn't go as long as I'd have liked because the subject was changed by other people that were also there.

[rmc523]

The MLBPA sent a counter proposal today:

This afternoon, the MLB Players Association presented the league with its counter-proposal about how to launch the 2020 season, ESPN’s Jeff Passan reports (Twitter links). Details of the proposal included a 114-game regular season that would end on Halloween, an opt-out clause that would allow any player to sit out the season, and a potential deferral of 2020 salaries if the postseason was canceled. Evan Drellich of The Athletic (Twitter links) has further updates, specifying that the 114-game season would begin on June 30, and that an expanded playoff structure would be in place for both the 2020 and 2021 seasons.

Players would also receive a $100MM salary advance during next year’s Spring Training, which is somewhat similar to the $170MM advance payment that players received this past March as an advance on their 2020 salaries. As per the March agreement, that $170MM in salary would be all the players would receive in the event of a canceled 2020 season, and presumably the MLBPA wants that $100MM payment already in place should the 2021 season be in jeopardy.

A total of $100MM in salary would deferred in the event of a canceled 2020 postseason, coming from player contracts worth more than $10MM (before being prorated). This money would be deferred into two payments, scheduled for November 2021 and November 2022. Players making less than $10MM wouldn’t defer any salary, so in a sense, this proposal from the players’ union has some very minor resemblance to the sliding-scale pay plan floated in the owners’ first proposal, in that the game’s higher-paid players would be taking more of a financial hit than lower-paid players. Of course, that is where the faint similarity ends, as the owners’ plan proposed that every player would take some type of a pay cut, whereas the players are still set on receiving all of their prorated salaries, if not immediately this year.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/...to-league.html

[sports24/7]

It's only me, of course, but I think the Marlins would have been better served to play J Sanchez, Lewin Diaz, and Monte Harrison this season instead of signing Dickerson, Aguilar, and Villar (esp with 20/20 and 2020 hindsight).

In hindsight, I can see that argument. I thought all of those moves were good moves at the time, however, and they still may be able to get value out of some of those guys one way or another.

- - - - - - - - - -

that is such an interesting decision in my opinion. obviously they wouldnt be completely staying away from the game but i find instructional games to be so much less likely to be as helpful as real minor league games. you could look at it as a wasted opportunity or a way to prolong this young cores cost controlled status in the future. if the season is so short where these guys wont make an impact i think id lean towards not promoting them and trying to make the best out of a lost year. this only really effects jazz, sixto, cabrera, jesus sanchez, monte, and maybe lewin but id be so interested to look back at how they handle this year and what impact it made on the rebuild in like 4-5 years.

I honestly think I'd lean the other way. Not with all of them, but at least a couple. Yes, you want to have them controlled for as long as possible, but their development is paramount, and even if you use up the service time this year, they should still be under control for a few years when the team is relevant (ideally).

[Lee Stone]

I'd say the chances of a 2020 MLB season just fell of a cliff. For whatever (incomprehensible) reason, the MLBPA has refused to acknowledge the loss of revenue resulting from no live gate for games.

MLB team owners seem have things backwards. Why try to force a major league season with a nonreceptive MLBPA and cancel minor league baseball for 2020 when they should be doing the exact opposite?

If the MLBPA won't accept an agreement that allows owners to keep their heads above water, why bother dragging things out? Make a last best offer and call it good ... or, in this case, call it off. No MLB in 2020.

And replace it with minor league ball.

A single AAA team with perhaps a 50-man roster for each MLB franchise, selected from the organization. Cactus League games at night, out of the heat, and Grepefruit games whenever. Televise them with a special negotiated deal. Let Bill Murray do the color commentating for Cubs games. Have fun with it everywhere.

Player development would continue. Fans would quickly appreciate the talent. The minor league players could be paid a decent salary for a year ... maybe as much as the policemen who keep our streets and homes safe.

[rmc523]

I'd say the chances of a 2020 MLB season just fell of a cliff. For whatever (incomprehensible) reason, the MLBPA has refused to acknowledge the loss of revenue resulting from no live gate for games.

MLB team owners seem have things backwards. Why try to force a major league season with a nonreceptive MLBPA and cancel minor league baseball for 2020 when they should be doing the exact opposite?

If the MLBPA won't accept an agreement that allows owners to keep their heads above water, why bother dragging things out? Make a last best offer and call it good ... or, in this case, call it off. No MLB in 2020.

And replace it with minor league ball.

A single AAA team with perhaps a 50-man roster for each MLB franchise, selected from the organization. Cactus League games at night, out of the heat, and Grepefruit games whenever. Televise them with a special negotiated deal. Let Bill Murray do the color commentating for Cubs games. Have fun with it everywhere.

Player development would continue. Fans would quickly appreciate the talent. The minor league players could be paid a decent salary for a year ... maybe as much as the policemen who keep our streets and homes safe.

You seem obsessed with this minor league only season that won't happen.



Despite the extreme initial position of both sides, I do think both MLB and MLBPA realize how damaging a complete season cancellation would be.

[Lee Stone]

You seem obsessed with this minor league only season that won't happen.



Despite the extreme initial position of both sides, I do think both MLB and MLBPA realize how damaging a complete season cancellation would be.

Didn't intend to be repetitive ... I'm just getting very old. You probably have a grandpa who's guilty of telling the same story twice.

[sports24/7]

Despite the extreme initial position of both sides, I do think both MLB and MLBPA realize how damaging a complete season cancellation would be.

You would think common sense would prevail here when you look not only about the money lost in the short term, but the long term damage it could do. It wasn't THAT long ago that a strike put baseball on life support. It was the behind hockey as far as popularity (until they blew things with their own work stoppage). Since then, baseball has built itself up to once again be up there with the big boys, and is as popular as ever. If there is no season while all of the other sports find a way to come back, they're going to dig themselves another hole. Rob Manfred has proven to be pretty incompetent, though, so I don't have a lot of faith here.

[rmc523]

You would think common sense would prevail here when you look not only about the money lost in the short term, but the long term damage it could do. It wasn't THAT long ago that a strike put baseball on life support. It was the behind hockey as far as popularity (until they blew things with their own work stoppage). Since then, baseball has built itself up to once again be up there with the big boys, and is as popular as ever. If there is no season while all of the other sports find a way to come back, they're going to dig themselves another hole. Rob Manfred has proven to be pretty incompetent, though, so I don't have a lot of faith here.

Yeah, Manfred needs to go. He's not helping the sport.

And yeah, if both sides can't see that, the sport has bigger problems.

[rmc523]

Jeff Passan is now reporting the league could consider a 50 game season.