2019-2020 Offseason Discussion

[Lee Stone]

Must have pulled a solid trade for Jarlin or believe they can. BAA and WHIP were right around tops on the staff last season. ERA second to maybe Gallen as I recall. And Garcia also has starter pedigree (Orioles might see him as a fit for their rotation). I'll be anxious to see who comes back.

I too think that C Smith's future is in the bullpen.

[Nick]

If we have a trade in place for Jarlin, what's the purpose of DFA'ing him? Why not just make the trade then announce Joyce and Kintzler? Is there some kind of advantage to DFA'ing him first that I'm not aware of?

[Erick]

If we have a trade in place for Jarlin, what's the purpose of DFA'ing him? Why not just make the trade then announce Joyce and Kintzler? Is there some kind of advantage to DFA'ing him first that I'm not aware of?

Yeah, this. I don’t really get the move.

Also, I don’t care much about losing Quijada, but I’m not sure he’s the first guy I’d let go from the 40-man either.

[lou]

If we have a trade in place for Jarlin, what's the purpose of DFA'ing him? Why not just make the trade then announce Joyce and Kintzler? Is there some kind of advantage to DFA'ing him first that I'm not aware of?

No, but it sets a clock where teams have to make offers so it may expedite a trade.

[lou]

So this is where they are:

Marlins 26/40 man rosters

C - Alfaro, Cervelli, Wallach (3)
1B - Aguilar, Cooper, L. Diaz (3)
2B - I. Diaz, Berti (2)
SS - Rojas, Jazz (2)
3B - Anderson (1)
CF - Villar, Sierra, Brinson, Monte (4)
OF - Dickerson, Ramirez, Joyce, J. Sanchez (4)
=19

SP - Sandy, Caleb, Pablo, Yamamoto, E. Hernandez,, Dugger, Neidert, Sixto, E. Cabrera (9)
RP - Kintzler, Stanek, Y. Garcia, Urena, Steckenrider, Sharp, Brigham, Guzman, (8)
LP - Conley, Tarpley (2)
Other - Holloway, Mejia (2 - likely non 2020 players)
=21

Total = 40

I actually like the hitter balance, where they can call up two guys (Wallach, Brinson) in case of injuries. That should get them to the super 2 deadline where things open up even more with at least Lewin and Monte. I don't think positions are an issue here with Rojas/Berti/Villar/Anderson being able to play everywhere. Likewise, it's nice that they can ideally keep Brinson in AAA for as long as possible before he gets his last opportunity.

The pitcher's don't make sense to me, but that's just because of the 16 RHP/3 LHP imbalance (ignoring Holloway/Mejia). I really don't know why they kept Dugger over Garcia, but I guess they can't live with Garcia's K rate.

Maybe Nick is right and Vesia is going to come up even if that is dumb for 40 man purposes. With Quijada gone, that does open a "longterm" spot for him as he was penciled in for awhile.

Practically, they should turn one of Urena/Yamamoto/Hernandez/Dugger into an equal value lefty and that sorts it out too.

[Lee Stone]

Whatever deals or no deals that may transpire after the designations of two more bullpen guys got me thinking. When will the Marlins get things right? Nick Wittgren went to Cleveland for Jordan Milbrath and it's not too early to call that a fiasco. Nick was great for Cleveland last year (certainly better than any Marlin relief pitcher). Milbrath is unlikely to ever pitch in Miami. Richards and Anderson went to Tampa for J Sanchez and Ryne Stanek. Everyone now knows that Anderson became a premium reliever for the Rays, cutting his WHIP in half. Not as many realize that Trevor went 3-0 for the Rays and put up a 1.93 ERA. Stanek was awful when he got to Miami - walking a batter per inning. J Sanchez is trying to get a handle on AAA pitching and the jury is out.

Lou: Maybe Nick is right and Vesia is going to come up even if that is dumb for 40 man purposes.

Outside of Kintzler perhaps, I believe that Vesia is the best reliever on the Marlins right now. With or without his help, this is looking like a piss poor pen.

[Namaste]

I agree with you on Wittgren (and Yelich for that matter) but I think Jesus Sanchez is going to be a beast and it’s waaayyyyyyy too early to say he won’t.

[tjfla]

They DFA Quijada instead of Conley because Conley has ZERO value right now and they are hoping he has a good 1st half to build it up. FO thinks at worst they get exactly what they could right now for him

As for Jarlin they got offers they liked. Should be like a Dean situation where they get a good prospect(in their eyes) for him

- - - - - - - - - -

If we have a trade in place for Jarlin, what's the purpose of DFA'ing him? Why not just make the trade then announce Joyce and Kintzler? Is there some kind of advantage to DFA'ing him first that I'm not aware of?

Cause now u have 7 days to trade him which opens it up for all teams who might have been on the fence about trading for him. They were calling around the past week to teams about lots of guys-Harold/Cooper/Elieser/Dugger/Jarlin, He probably had some good value

They are gonna likely DFA an OF or 2(depending on Kemp) in ST and add a RP. They have a bullpen spot open now

[Erick]

I can’t believe we didn’t DFA Garrett Cooper. Or Conley. Or Ureña. Thanks tjfla for your wonderful info.

[tjfla]

So this is where they are:

Marlins 26/40 man rosters

C - Alfaro, Cervelli, Wallach (3)
1B - Aguilar, Cooper, L. Diaz (3)
2B - I. Diaz, Berti (2)
SS - Rojas, Jazz (2)
3B - Anderson (1)
CF - Villar, Sierra, Brinson, Monte (4)
OF - Dickerson, Ramirez, Joyce, J. Sanchez (4)
=19

SP - Sandy, Caleb, Pablo, Yamamoto, E. Hernandez,, Dugger, Neidert, Sixto, E. Cabrera (9)
RP - Kintzler, Stanek, Y. Garcia, Urena, Steckenrider, Sharp, Brigham, Guzman, (8)
LP - Conley, Tarpley (2)
Other - Holloway, Mejia (2 - likely non 2020 players)
=21

Total = 40

I actually like the hitter balance, where they can call up two guys (Wallach, Brinson) in case of injuries. That should get them to the super 2 deadline where things open up even more with at least Lewin and Monte. I don't think positions are an issue here with Rojas/Berti/Villar/Anderson being able to play everywhere. Likewise, it's nice that they can ideally keep Brinson in AAA for as long as possible before he gets his last opportunity.

The pitcher's don't make sense to me, but that's just because of the 16 RHP/3 LHP imbalance (ignoring Holloway/Mejia). I really don't know why they kept Dugger over Garcia, but I guess they can't live with Garcia's K rate.

Maybe Nick is right and Vesia is going to come up even if that is dumb for 40 man purposes. With Quijada gone, that does open a "longterm" spot for him as he was penciled in for awhile.

Practically, they should turn one of Urena/Yamamoto/Hernandez/Dugger into an equal value lefty and that sorts it out too.

Dugger is likely the optioned 6th SP till the bigger names are ready

Dylan Lee/Castano likely get first shot or Milb they are gonna sign a few Milb arms still

- - - - - - - - - -

I can’t believe we didn’t DFA Garrett Cooper. Or Conley. Or Ureña. Thanks tjfla for your wonderful info.

Well Urena likely DFA or traded but not till ST(said that about 100 times) as for Conley I just said why they kept him over Quijada.

An OF is gonna get DFA in ST just depends on who. Cooper? Brinson? Sierra? Harold? They got too many and will have a pen spot open

[lou]

Whatever deals or no deals that may transpire after the designations of two more bullpen guys got me thinking. When will the Marlins get things right? Nick Wittgren went to Cleveland for Jordan Milbrath and it's not too early to call that a fiasco. Nick was great for Cleveland last year (certainly better than any Marlin relief pitcher). Milbrath is unlikely to ever pitch in Miami. Richards and Anderson went to Tampa for J Sanchez and Ryne Stanek. Everyone now knows that Anderson became a premium reliever for the Rays, cutting his WHIP in half. Not as many realize that Trevor went 3-0 for the Rays and put up a 1.93 ERA. Stanek was awful when he got to Miami - walking a batter per inning. J Sanchez is trying to get a handle on AAA pitching and the jury is out.

Lou: Maybe Nick is right and Vesia is going to come up even if that is dumb for 40 man purposes.

Outside of Kintzler perhaps, I believe that Vesia is the best reliever on the Marlins right now. With or without his help, this is looking like a piss poor pen.

They got Nick Anderson and Trevor Richards for "Brian Schales," so I find it difficult to criticize those bullpen moves when they literally hit two grand slams with those two for nothing. A debate is certainly out on Sanchez, but you have to take a swing at an everyday position player with his upside, and Stanek isn't a bum either. They get "A fucking pluses" on those two guys and these moves on paper.

I agree with you on Wittgren. That one is still puzzling (he had an option last year!!!), but he's also a 3rd/4th right hander in a good bullpen. You hate to give up value, but he doesn't rise to the level of something like Hand. Hand is the real mistake they've made in semi-recent history.

I'm not sweating losing Garcia/Quijada (especially since I suspect Garcia is easily traded, and Quijada is traded or clears to AAA), I just see a R/L imbalance with the present roster. It's fixed with turning any of the right handers into a MLB lefty, and counting on Rogers/Castano/Lee/maybe Vesia to be the injury replacement lefties.

- - - - - - - - - -

Well Urena likely DFA or traded but not till ST(said that about 100 times) as for Conley I just said why they kept him over Quijada.

An OF is gonna get DFA in ST just depends on who. Cooper? Brinson? Sierra? Harold? They got too many and will have a pen spot open

I would say they have just enough and shouldn't change any of the bats right now. Except if they want to DFA Wallach, sign a more versatile position player, and then trust you can get MiLB players/veterans on minor league deals to play in AAA. Ride with the guys until the summer and see what happens.

I honestly want to see Cooper, Sierra, and Harold get a bunch of MLB PA until Lewin/Monte presumably come up. And Brinson just hit in AAA for as long as possible.

[tjfla]

They got Nick Anderson and Trevor Richards for "Brian Schales," so I find it difficult to criticize those bullpen moves when they literally hit two grand slams with those two for nothing. A debate is certainly out on Sanchez, but you have to take a swing at an everyday position player with his upside, and Stanek isn't a bum either. They get "A fucking pluses" on those two guys and these moves on paper.

I agree with you on Wittgren. That one is still puzzling (he had an option last year!!!), but he's also a 3rd/4th right hander in a good bullpen. You hate to give up value, but he doesn't rise to the level of something like Hand. Hand is the real mistake they've made in semi-recent history.

I'm not sweating losing Garcia/Quijada (especially since I suspect Garcia is easily traded, and Quijada is traded or clears to AAA), I just see a R/L imbalance with the present roster. It's fixed with turning any of the right handers into a MLB lefty, and counting on Rogers/Castano/Lee/maybe Vesia to be the injury replacement lefties.

Wouldn't be surprised if the RP market is as nuts as LY that Steck/Stanek/Kintzler all gone

Another thing to remember is they have about 10 RP they like ALOT who are NOT on the 40 man and are older already

L-Lee,Castano,Vesia,Mills,Guenther
R-Stevens,Graves,Aiello,Eveld,Mateo,CJ Carter

[lou]

Wouldn't be surprised if the RP market is as nuts as LY that Steck/Stanek/Kintzler all gone

Another thing to remember is they have about 10 RP they like ALOT who are NOT on the 40 man and are older already

L-Lee,Castano,Vesia,Mills,Guenther
R-Stevens,Graves,Aiello,Eveld,Mateo,CJ Carter

The summer doesn't matter yet. They just need to get to the all star break as they have a good lefty in whatever role (Smith), and two massive question marks even if there is real upside (Conley, Tarpley). That's tough.

They should swap out Dugger for a lefty and do this at this point:

SP - Sandy, Caleb, Pablo, Urena, Yamamoto, (AAA-E. Hernandez, Neidert, Sixto, E. Cabrera) (9)
RP - Kintzler, Stanek, Y. Garcia, Steckenrider, Sharp (AAA-Brigham, Guzman) (7)
LP - Conley, Tarpley, ________ (3)

Hernandez and Brigham are fine call ups for now.

If Kintzler, Stanek, Yimi, Steckenrider, Conley, AND Urena are all moved out in the summer (which is probably their ideal plan), there is plenty of room to try out all those relievers around the higher end prospects.

That'll sort itself out. Not having good lefties right now? That's an issue. With how well they have orchestrated the offseason so far, I think it'll be surprising if they don't find another lefty to make Don's life a little easier.

[tjfla]

The summer doesn't matter yet. They just need to get to the all star break as they have a good lefty in whatever role (Smith), and two massive question marks even if there is real upside (Conley, Tarpley). That's tough.

They should swap out Dugger for a lefty and do this at this point:

SP - Sandy, Caleb, Pablo, Urena, Yamamoto, (AAA-E. Hernandez, Neidert, Sixto, E. Cabrera) (9)
RP - Kintzler, Stanek, Y. Garcia, Steckenrider, Sharp (AAA-Brigham, Guzman) (7)
LP - Conley, Tarpley, ________ (3)

Hernandez and Brigham are fine call ups for now.

If Kintzler, Stanek, Yimi, Steckenrider, Conley, AND Urena are all moved out in the summer (which is probably their ideal plan), there is plenty of room to try out all those relievers around the higher end prospects.

That'll sort itself out. Not having good lefties right now? That's an issue. With how well they have orchestrated the offseason so far, I think it'll be surprising if they don't find another lefty to make Don's life a little easier.

Butcher,Cingrani,Sipp,Venters,Vargas,Duke,Loup all still out there and they have been trying on Cingrani/Vargas for months. Sign 2 or 3 to Milb deals to Venditte,Lee,Castano they battle u DFA an OF and add 1 of them

Yep thats the plan(prolly keep 1 of Stanek or Steck) and Urena could be traded anytime from March to July(they prefer before the season but arent giving him away)

[lou]

Butcher,Cingrani,Sipp,Venters,Vargas,Duke,Loup all still out there and they have been trying on Cingrani/Vargas for months. Sign 2 or 3 to Milb deals to Venditte,Lee,Castano they battle u DFA an OF and add 1 of them

That's exactly what I would do, but I'd say trade out Urena/Yamamoto/Hernandez/Dugger/Holloway/Mejia for an equal value guy not 40 man eligible for that lefty spot, versus get rid of an OF.