Marlins 2017-2018 Offseason Discussion Thread

[tjfla]

Right. That was the article I was referring to. Even with Flaherty in that deal, it would have to be more solid parts to beat the deal Mish laid out from SF. If it's Alcantara and Wacha, it would seemingly have to be significantly more.

Lets just say u would have liked them both. There was a reason Miami liked St Louis's offers alot more and had nothing to do with cash. We were getting alot of nice pieces and its still possible we get them. Soon as this deal is done u will be hearing about Ozuna to St Louis. Miami's FO loved the deals for Stanton and they will only be better for Ozuna. Not sure how close to the Stanton deal but most of the names u hear for Ozuna were also for Stanton

[sports24/7]

None of this makes me "ecstatic." This is all simply the result of being the worst run team in baseball for the past decade. We're trading the BEST power hitter in the game, and the best player we might be getting back is an 18-year old OF'er. I hate Loria.

No. Neither of these packages are probably going to be worth a 28 year old MVP who may have challenged the HR record had he been playing in a more hitter friendly park. That being said, people are very high on that 18-year outfielder, and really, Arroyo is probably the best prospect. He was the 56th best prospect according to MLB.com's latest rankings. The entire situation is incredibly frustrating, and I'm still not holding my breath that Mish's report is the real package, but that would take some of the sting off, and would be a nice start to rebuilding the system.

[Erick]

An 18 yr old who was our 2nd/3rd choice in the draft LY. If Trevor Rogers wasn't there we likely would have taken Heliot Ramos

Yay? At the end of the day, we’re selling low either way.

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No. Neither of these packages are probably going to be worth a 28 year old MVP who may have challenged the HR record had he been playing in a more hitter friendly park. That being said, people are very high on that 18-year outfielder, and really, Arroyo is probably the best prospect. He was the 56th best prospect according to MLB.com's latest rankings. The entire situation is incredibly frustrating, and I'm still not holding my breath that Mish's report is the real package, but that would take some of the sting off, and would be a nice start to rebuilding the system.

Arroyo stinks

[tjfla]

Yay? At the end of the day, we’re selling low either way.

True but thats what happens when the guy can choose to go where he wants. We are gonna go from getting less value because a guy can choose to where he wants to go(Stanton) to a guy who will have a bidding war on him because we can choose where he goes(Ozuna)

Actually Arroyo can hit,he broke his hand and messed his year up

[Erick]

True but thats what happens when the guy can choose to go where he wants. We are gonna go from getting less value because a guy can choose to where he wants to go(Stanton) to a guy who will have a bidding war on him because we can choose where he goes(Ozuna)

Actually Arroyo can hit,he broke his hand and messed his year up

That’s actually what happens when you have terrible ownership. Even without the no trade clause, we’d still have to sell low. Every other franchise in baseball would just keep Stanton after signing him to a monster deal.

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Best case scenario, Arroyo becomes another Joe Panik. Nobody is excited about Joe Panik though because he’s not a “prospect” (most overrated word in sports).

[fish16]

That’s actually what happens when you have terrible ownership. Even without the no trade clause, we’d still have to sell low. Every other franchise in baseball would just keep Stanton after signing him to a monster deal.

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Best case scenario, Arroyo becomes another Joe Panik. Nobody is excited about Joe Panik though because he’s not a “prospect” (most overrated word in sports).

i like joe panik, but the reason people would be more excited about arroyo is because he comes with 2-3 years more of team control and the potential to be more. Obviously it also comes with the potential to be bad, but when youre rebuilding its better to take shots and get guys who are under team control for significantly longer.

[Erick]

i like joe panik, but the reason people would be more excited about arroyo is because he comes with 2-3 years more of team control and the potential to be more. Obviously it also comes with the potential to be bad, but when youre rebuilding its better to take shots and get guys who are under team control for significantly longer.

I wouldn’t be excited with either player. Neither is a high upside player worth building around.

[tjfla]

That’s actually what happens when you have terrible ownership. Even without the no trade clause, we’d still have to sell low. Every other franchise in baseball would just keep Stanton after signing him to a monster deal.

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Best case scenario, Arroyo becomes another Joe Panik. Nobody is excited about Joe Panik though because he’s not a “prospect” (most overrated word in sports).

Actually best case is Arroyo can play SS. Worst case is another Joe Panik who plays a solid 2B and hits .300

[fish16]

I wouldn’t be excited with either player. Neither is a high upside player worth building around.

worth building around as in the best player on a team? Sure. Worth building around as a good young player with 6 years of team control? Hell ya they both are, but Arroyo especially.

[tjfla]

worth building around as in the best player on a team? Sure. Worth building around as a good young player with 6 years of team control? Hell ya they both are, but Arroyo especially.

Its not a great deal but gives u a Starting 1B,Starting 2B,#5 SP and 5 tool #1 Prospect. Also lets u trade Bour and Gordon for more stuff. A positive start to a rebuild

[Erick]

worth building around as in the best player on a team? Sure. Worth building around as a good young player with 6 years of team control? Hell ya they both are, but Arroyo especially.

Arroyo's numbers in the minors (which aren't even that impressive) are .BABIP inflated. He has no power, does not walk & actually strikes out a little bit too much for a guy with no power who does not walk.

Honestly, I think I'd just rather have Panik. Not really exciting either, but at least he's a sure thing who might have trade value at the deadline (especially if his career #'s outside of SF hold up).

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I'm also not sure why we need to trade Bour right now. His value to the team seems like it'd be better than his value in a trade. He's cheap, and 1B (who should be a DH) never really bring back a great return.

Bour seems like the type of value player this franchise should want to keep at this point. (I could be wrong about his trade value, just saying)

[fish16]

Arroyo's numbers in the minors (which aren't even that impressive) are .BABIP inflated. He has no power, does not walk & actually strikes out a little bit too much for a guy with no power who does not walk.

Honestly, I think I'd just rather have Panik. Not really exciting either, but at least he's a sure thing who might have trade value at the deadline (especially if his career #'s outside of SF hold up).

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I'm also not sure why we need to trade Bour right now. His value to the team seems like it'd be better than his value in a trade. He's cheap, and 1B (who should be a DH) never really bring back a great return.

Bour seems like the type of value player this franchise should want to keep at this point. (I could be wrong about his trade value, just saying)

about bour, i would agree, but i think his value is going to be at its highest right now, he's already 30 and shown he cant stay healthy. For him, in my opinion, it depends on what his trade value is (and i have no idea what it is) and if we get a guy like shaw back in the stanton deal. He also only has 3 years left of team control. To me, i completely gut the team and get rid of everyone who has 3 years or less of team control left.

But ya, for bour it all depends on his value and im not sure what it is. Id love to see a trade of Bour for like 3-4 guys, none of whom are top prospects, but similar to the Phelps trade where it is just help for us to build the depth of the system. That more than anything is what i think is most important. We cant keep having entire seasons ruined because one guy gets injured.

[Erick]

about bour, i would agree, but i think his value is going to be at its highest right now, he's already 30 and shown he cant stay healthy. For him, in my opinion, it depends on what his trade value is (and i have no idea what it is) and if we get a guy like shaw back in the stanton deal. He also only has 3 years left of team control. To me, i completely gut the team and get rid of everyone who has 3 years or less of team control left.

But ya, for bour it all depends on his value and im not sure what it is. Id love to see a trade of Bour for like 3-4 guys, none of whom are top prospects, but similar to the Phelps trade where it is just help for us to build the depth of the system. That more than anything is what i think is most important. We cant keep having entire seasons ruined because one guy gets injured.

In my opinion, since we're trading Stanton, we should just gut the whole team. Ozuna definitely & I would go as far as Yelich. If the goal is to add prospects/depth, that's the best/quickest way to do it. Yelich would bring back 3-4 prospects with a couple of really good ones. Ozuna would bring back something really nice too.

Realmuto is another guy especially if tjfla's idea of adding a C in one of these trades is true.

Yelich, Ozuna, and Realmuto trades would drastically improve our farm system. Instead, we're only trading the guys with minimal trade value. We never sell high, regardless of the ownership group.

[fish16]

In my opinion, since we're trading Stanton, we should just gut the whole team. Ozuna definitely & I would go as far as Yelich. If the goal is to add prospects/depth, that's the best/quickest way to do it. Yelich would bring back 3-4 prospects with a couple of really good ones. Ozuna would bring back something really nice too.

Realmuto is another guy especially if tjfla's idea of adding a C in one of these trades is true.

Yelich, Ozuna, and Realmuto trades would drastically improve our farm system. Instead, we're only trading the guys with minimal trade value. We never sell high, regardless of the ownership group.

not sure about your last sentence. I think we will sell high on all of those guys this offseason. Only guy i see staying is yelich because he is still young as hell and that contract is incredible. Realmuto id love to see dealt if we can get a huge package for him, which i think we could.

Just doing a little spit balling as far as what our future could look like at every position after the stanton and ozuna trade and its not a contender but its not a terrible start either, and this is without taking into consideration trades of guys like Dee, Bour, Realmuto, Yelich, Straily, Barraclough, Prado, etc.

1b- Shaw
2b- Arroyo
SS-
3b- Anderson
Lf- Piscotty or Grichuk?
CF- Yelich
RF- ?

SP prospects- Rogers, Garrett, Beede, Flaherty, Alcantara, Peters, Urena, Merandy Gonzalez, Conley.

Not good by any stretch of the imagination, but as the baseline for a rebuild, you could do a lot worse. Astros and Cubs started off a lot worse than that.

[Nick]

I don't see how you could argue that this is not selling high on Stanton. He just hit 59 home runs for us last season. Yes his deal makes it tough to trade him, but it's that deal that allowed him to stick around the last couple of years to hit 59 home runs for us. He would've gotten a similar deal on the open market, there are just a handful of teams that would've been willing to pay it, just like there are only a handful of teams willing to trade for him. This is simply the reality of trying to keep a superstar player beyond his arbitration years, and then deciding to trade him.

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Jeff Loria cheaping out and structuring the deal like an a-hole makes a Stanton trade more difficult for sure. So if you want to be mad at somebody, it's the same guy you should've been mad at for the past 15 years. Hopefully things are changing.