Marlins 2017-2018 Offseason Discussion Thread

[fish16]

I don't think any of us has the inside info (not even tj) on what's going on in Stanton's head to make a statement like that. He can say playing for a contender is the most important thing all he wants, because that's what he's supposed to say, but whose to say where he lives and comfortable surroundings don't trump playing for a winning team? It's apparent that aspect of it is important to him, or else we wouldn't even be talking about this.

My point was just that the guy has a $325 million contract and he will be living in luxury no matter where he goes. And I get that that is what he is supposed to say, but i dont think any superstar ball player, even if they cared nothing about their actual career, would be ok with spending their entire career losing like we have for nearly 15 years now. I am just inferring obviously, but to me Stanton has been beyond frustrated for years about the direction of the franchise and he has said it through most losing streaks and bad offseason moves (like after the Blue Jays trade).

But ya, we dont actually know shit, we're all just guessing.

[tjfla]

Do what you will with this, I've heard Stanton's list is Dodgers, Angels, Yankees. That's it at the moment.

Well I've heard Stanton's preference list is 6 teams LAD,LAA,SF,Boston and 2 other teams(NYY,St Louis,Arizona and SD have been mentioned as 2 others but nothing confirmed)

LAA is OUT already so its really a 5 team list. Boston is looking at JD Martinez and Jose Abreu instead of Stanton. LAD aren't interested in him UNLESS they can move salary,they made us an offer of like Brandon McCarthy and mid level prospects and were told NO. They have barely talked since.

St Louis like the start is the Wild Card. They are dying to have a meeting/talk to him and sell him on them. The big thing is we have already had alot of conversation with them and want to do a deal with them

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Is saying, you're going to play for a bad team really leverage?

Also, doesn't Stanton have an opt out in 2 years? Doesn't that render him going to any team meaningless as he can just opt out?

Yep and thats what he is trying to tell us. His people are saying trade me where I wanna go and start your rebuild early OR trade everyone else on the team and ill just hang out for 2 years and opt at and go where I want then. That's is why he wants to meet with teams on his preferred list-wants to know their plan for the team and him past 2020.

In other words he is using the No Trade and Opt out to his benefit.

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I don't think any of us has the inside info (not even tj) on what's going on in Stanton's head to make a statement like that. He can say playing for a contender is the most important thing all he wants, because that's what he's supposed to say, but whose to say where he lives and comfortable surroundings don't trump playing for a winning team? It's apparent that aspect of it is important to him, or else we wouldn't even be talking about this.

True only know that he has a list of 5 teams he prefers and if he doesn't get traded he will opt out in 2020.

I do know LAD/LAA are his #1,#2,#3 choices and LAA is already out. LAD arent even talking to us about him right now BUT if u see them moving salary then it means they are preparing for a run at him

[sports24/7]

Is saying, you're going to play for a bad team really leverage?

Also, doesn't Stanton have an opt out in 2 years? Doesn't that render him going to any team meaningless as he can just opt out?

I think it is. Stanton has said he does not want to play on a rebuilding team. He can sit around for 2 years on a bad team and collect his money, but why would he rather that than go to a winning team in a market that might not be his first choice, and still get paid the same amount of money, but actually enjoy going to work every day?

And while he CAN opt out in two years, banking on that would be a pretty big gamble. If he gets hurt, or his numbers go down (likely without any protection around him), he's not opting out to lose considerable money by hitting the open market at 30. So he'd be stuck here for the rest of his career.

[lou]

I think it is. Stanton has said he does not want to play on a rebuilding team. He can sit around for 2 years on a bad team and collect his money, but why would he rather that than go to a winning team in a market that might not be his first choice, and still get paid the same amount of money, but actually enjoy going to work every day?

And while he CAN opt out in two years, banking on that would be a pretty big gamble. If he gets hurt, or his numbers go down (likely without any protection around him), he's not opting out to lose considerable money by hitting the open market at 30. So he'd be stuck here for the rest of his career.

I don't buy it. I appreciate the card he is trying to play to dictate his location, but I'm not buying it. Assume St. Louis is the only deal that makes personnel sense for the Marlins. Stanton is going to say NO because the allure of playing in Miami geographically on a bad team is better than going to an excellent contending organization? No way. The worst case scenario is, you hate it just as much as it sucks playing for Miami and opt out in 2 years. He's made roughly $38 million dollars in salary to date (plus endorsements), gets $51 million more the next two years raising the total to $90+ million, and has a shit ton of guaranteed money on the backend he can always take. That's "fuck you" money where his great grandkids are beyond set for life. It's not like he wouldn't get a significant 9 digit contract even if he gets hurt the next two years. He'd recoup a huge portion of the opt out money on a new deal and still be worth a fortune. He'd have to lose an arm.

We'll see what happens, but I'm just saying, this supposed leverage? No way. He'd go to St. Louis for 2 years and bank on not getting hurt versus playing for the 1998-1999 Marlins.

But I do think San Francisco will figure out how to get him, so it's probably all moot. Let's send Ozuna and Barraclough to St. Louis for the house in move 2.

[Nick]

If he's so adamant about playing for a contender as you guys are saying, why would he go to San Francisco? They had the worst record in the league last year, and while Stanton would certainly help, I don't see him turning them into a contender. At least not in the near future. (next 2 years)

[tjfla]

If he's so adamant about playing for a contender as you guys are saying, why would he go to San Francisco? They had the worst record in the league last year, and while Stanton would certainly help, I don't see him turning them into a contender. At least not in the near future. (next 2 years)

Thats why his people wanna talk to the teams before he agrees to anything. They wanna be able to see what the SF/St Louis plans are for the next few years. St Louis thinks once they talk to him he will say OK but they are even leery about him sayin OK and then opting out to go to LA or even SD in 2020

Because he would rather be on a rebuilding team in California then a rebuilding team in Miami and there "rebuild" will be fast. The guy wants to be on the West Coast plain and simple.

Miami wants to do a trade with St Louis and Stanton wants to be on the West Coast prefers LA-the compromise might be SF. He gets to play in Cali and while we don't get exactly what we want we get 3 or 4 players and IFA Pool cash to spend on more prospects

[sports24/7]

I don't buy it. I appreciate the card he is trying to play to dictate his location, but I'm not buying it. Assume St. Louis is the only deal that makes personnel sense for the Marlins. Stanton is going to say NO because the allure of playing in Miami geographically on a bad team is better than going to an excellent contending organization? No way. The worst case scenario is, you hate it just as much as it sucks playing for Miami and opt out in 2 years. He's made roughly $38 million dollars in salary to date (plus endorsements), gets $51 million more the next two years raising the total to $90+ million, and has a shit ton of guaranteed money on the backend he can always take. That's "fuck you" money where his great grandkids are beyond set for life. It's not like he wouldn't get a significant 9 digit contract even if he gets hurt the next two years. He'd recoup a huge portion of the opt out money on a new deal and still be worth a fortune. He'd have to lose an arm.

We'll see what happens, but I'm just saying, this supposed leverage? No way. He'd go to St. Louis for 2 years and bank on not getting hurt versus playing for the 1998-1999 Marlins.

But I do think San Francisco will figure out how to get him, so it's probably all moot. Let's send Ozuna and Barraclough to St. Louis for the house in move 2.

It sounds like you're agreeing with me. If he'd rather go to St. Louis than stay on a bad Miami team, that does mean Miami has some leverage here.

They obviously don't have all of the leverage with Stanton having the NTC, but I truly do not believe he'll suck it up and play two more of his prime years on a bad team instead of going to a contending team that may not be his first choice.

As far as his contract. Sure, he has "fuck you" money, but if he gets a significant injury or his play drops off, he's not getting anything close to an 8 year deal worth $223M. That kind of money puts you into a different stratosphere. And while it's easy for us to sit here and say we'd be happy with even a fraction of that, these guys don't think that way. That's why they hire these mega-agents.

[fish16]

Someone is gonna have to explain to me why not trading Stanton, keeping him while we rebuild for a few years, and then him opting out after a few more years would be bad for the marlins. Aside from a trade where we get a great haul for him and dont have to eat much money, that's not much worse than any other choices. Granted, we dont get anything for him, but he remains the face of the franchise for those few years, and he opts out before those inevitable albatross years where he's in his mid to late 30's. The question would be whether he opts out, but that would not be bad at all. It's like Pujols leaving in a way. We dont get Stanton for his entire career, but those types of contracts usually turn out poorly and while it might have stunk for the Cards, it worked out for the best for them.

[AdamRavs]

Someone is gonna have to explain to me why not trading Stanton, keeping him while we rebuild for a few years, and then him opting out after a few more years would be bad for the marlins. Aside from a trade where we get a great haul for him and dont have to eat much money, that's not much worse than any other choices. Granted, we dont get anything for him, but he remains the face of the franchise for those few years, and he opts out before those inevitable albatross years where he's in his mid to late 30's. The question would be whether he opts out, but that would not be bad at all. It's like Pujols leaving in a way. We dont get Stanton for his entire career, but those types of contracts usually turn out poorly and while it might have stunk for the Cards, it worked out for the best for them.

If he stays and he's pissed. His production could drop off and every nagging pain he could just go on the DL instead of fighting through. Thats my concern with him staying.

[Ralph]

Id actually prefer to keep him and get a bevy of rospects for Yelich, Ozuna, Bour, Realmuto. Etc. it might even be a faster rebuild.

[sports24/7]

If he stays and he's pissed. His production could drop off and every nagging pain he could just go on the DL instead of fighting through. Thats my concern with him staying.

That's the thing, though. If he stays, he really can't be pissed. He can't have it both ways. The Marlins are obviously shopping him. So the opportunity to play elsewhere is on the table.

[lou]

Id actually prefer to keep him and get a bevy of rospects for Yelich, Ozuna, Bour, Realmuto. Etc. it might even be a faster rebuild.

I think you have to keep Yelich. They control him the longest, and has the best contract on top of that. He can survive 2-3 rebuilding years and still be in his prime. Stanton, they have him for 2 years, and if they keep him longer it's because he got hurt. We all know he will opt out. If you're not winning next two years with him (which they aren't), they should move him for pitching.

[fish16]

I think you have to keep Yelich. They control him the longest, and has the best contract on top of that. He can survive 2-3 rebuilding years and still be in his prime. Stanton, they have him for 2 years, and if they keep him longer it's because he got hurt. We all know he will opt out. If you're not winning next two years with him (which they aren't), they should move him for pitching.

Ya, Yelich is the only one i keep. He will be cheap, young, and still really good when we should be done with the rebuild. Realmuto should be on the block though 100%.

[tjfla]

Ya, Yelich is the only one i keep. He will be cheap, young, and still really good when we should be done with the rebuild. Realmuto should be on the block though 100%.

HAHA and who do u get to replace him? I mentioned this in July(remember when I said u ask St Louis for Carson Kelly because he was and is their best prospect then trade JT for more prospects) however was told by many especially U that no chance we would trade him and shouldnt get Kelly because he is a C and we have JT.

If they do trade all but Stanton, Stanton just tells Jeter OK I will play here till 2020 and opt out OR only accept a trade to LAD no one else. Just trade him to SF and start the rebuild now.

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In all seriousness,the FO is trying to get a young C. In fact they would love to trade Stanton to LAD and get Keibert Ruiz back in the deal

http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp...tting/2017/ALL

The problem is LAD can't afford him which means we have to take a contract and the deal they talked to us about was terrible. They wanted to trade us old ass Brandon McCarthy and crap prospects plus get money back to pay his salary

If they offer a Puig,Mitchell White,Keibert Ruiz for Stanton and 50 million Miami would jump all over that. Either keep Puig or trade him for more prospects

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Likely what will happen is there is a compromise(assuming LAD doesn't step up) and its Stanton to SF for Ramos and prospects/IFA Pool Cash OR Stanton and St Louis meet and he loves what he sees/hears and OK's a deal there.

We have outlines of deal with both of them but prefer St Louis's and are waiting to get a YES or NO from Stanton before we do anything. They don't wanna say yes to SF to early only to hear that Stanton would have went to St Louis

[sports24/7]

Ya, Yelich is the only one i keep. He will be cheap, young, and still really good when we should be done with the rebuild. Realmuto should be on the block though 100%.

I'd actually rather trade Yelich than Realmuto. Yelich is the better player, but he'll bring back the better return, and it's harder to find a good catcher. Even if you bring back a good catching prospect, the hit rate on catching prospects seems to be lower than most other positions. Realmuto is cheap, and under control for a while. I'd actually consider keeping both of those guys and getting rid of everyone else if it were me, though.