Marlins 2017-2018 Offseason Discussion Thread

[fish16]

I don't see how you could argue that this is not selling high on Stanton. He just hit 59 home runs for us last season. Yes his deal makes it tough to trade him, but it's that deal that allowed him to stick around the last couple of years to hit 59 home runs for us. He would've gotten a similar deal on the open market, there are just a handful of teams that would've been willing to pay it, just like there are only a handful of teams willing to trade for him. This is simply the reality of trying to keep a superstar player beyond his arbitration years, and then deciding to trade him.

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Jeff Loria cheaping out and structuring the deal like an a-hole makes a Stanton trade more difficult for sure. So if you want to be mad at somebody, it's the same guy you should've been mad at for the past 15 years. Hopefully things are changing.

exactly. And lets just go back 1 year from today. Would you imagine anyone even taking stanton's contract from us, let alone giving us multiple solid prospects? Last year was the first year in his career he stayed healthy. The worst thing that could happen to us is to keep him and he gets hurt again and we are stuck with his contract for the foreseeable future. It sucks to see him go, but it is necessary for the future of the team.

[lou]

In my opinion, since we're trading Stanton, we should just gut the whole team. Ozuna definitely & I would go as far as Yelich. If the goal is to add prospects/depth, that's the best/quickest way to do it. Yelich would bring back 3-4 prospects with a couple of really good ones. Ozuna would bring back something really nice too.

Realmuto is another guy especially if tjfla's idea of adding a C in one of these trades is true.

Yelich, Ozuna, and Realmuto trades would drastically improve our farm system. Instead, we're only trading the guys with minimal trade value. We never sell high, regardless of the ownership group.

Just chiming in to disagree conceptually with Yelich. They have him for 5 years cheap. You keep him as he's a sure thing and he can survive a 2-3 year rebuild. Everyone else is in arbitration or has contracts expiring right when all these prospects might be good. They have to go so they can create the new core that will all grow and peak together. They should get a ton of stuff back for Stanton, Ozuna, Realmuto, Gordon, Strarily, Urena, Bour, Barraclough, Prado, Ziegler, etc. That, plus the few pieces they have in the minors, hopefully COLLEGE players 2018 and 2019 drafts that move quick, and conceptually a really really low payroll in 2020 to get free agents, says you keep him. Just my take. I think he can be your anchor offensive player in 2020-2022 for sure.

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Jeff Loria cheaping out and structuring the deal like an a-hole makes a Stanton trade more difficult for sure. So if you want to be mad at somebody, it's the same guy you should've been mad at for the past 15 years. Hopefully things are changing.

Yep, although I dont think its the Stanton deal structure.

It's the years of underspending on the draft, not spending internationally, making seriously poor free agent decisions, etc. etc. etc. beating a horse. They couldn't even sell naming rights and Samson was one of the highest paid executives in baseball.

I think the SF deal sucks, but I can't cast blame on the new guys yet. THis is till Loria.

[Namaste]

Ya, given that prado isnt gonna be attached to Stanton and i find it hard to believe that he will be attached to Ozuna, i think he is the type of guy who could potentially stay, hopefully get healthy and play to his capabilities, and then be traded at the deadline. He is versatile defensively (or at least he used to be) so i think he could plug a hole in the lineup somewhere for the first half and hopefully rebuild his value a little bit.

If we’re going to FIRE SALE, trade Bour before he hurts his foot and misses 2 months. You know that’s going to happen.

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None of this makes me "ecstatic." This is all simply the result of being the worst run team in baseball for the past decade. We're trading the BEST power hitter in the game, and the best player we might be getting back is an 18-year old OF'er. I hate Loria.

Yup.

Some people are here are ready to jizz all over themselves thinking about MAYBE getting San Fran’s top 4 prospects.

This is, unequivocally, a dark moment in Marlins history.

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Yay? At the end of the day, we’re selling low either way.

I totally agree with the other stuff you said but I think you missed the mark with this post.

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Jeff Loria cheaping out and structuring the deal like an a-hole
makes a Stanton trade more difficult for sure. So if you want to be mad at somebody, it's the same guy you should've been mad at for the past 15 years. Hopefully things are changing.

If the Commissioner wants to improve his league, he’s got to somehow find a way that complete nonsense like this never happens again. EVERYONE had to know Loria was never going to pay the back end of the Stanton contract.

I f***** hate him so much.

[fish16]

I do agree it's a dark moment in team history, i'm just optimistic that we finally have Loria out of here and think the new owners understand what they need to do as far as a rebuild. Honestly, i just want to see the team win again and win consistently, and trading stanton and the other guys is the way to do it.

[dim]

I'd take Ramos, Beede, Shaw, and Arroyo.

Under normal circumstances you don't trade a franchise guy like Stanton, but we don't live in normal circumstances.

Those four pieces offer the team a chance to rebuild and it wouldn't be all that long term (outside of Heliot). Despite the low walk numbers being worrisome, good shortstops are hard to find in the high minors and Arroyo offers the Marlins first legitimate starting SS who can produce since Hanley.

Heliot Ramos would be built entirely on potential since he's only played in rookie ball. It is obviously unfortunate the Marlins don't hit on these picks themselves so they have to look to other teams systems that picked the right players, but Ramos offers a future star.

Beede is a player who in either 2015 or 2016 would've been a centerpiece of any star player trade. The poor season hurt his value, but the numbers still suggest Beede could be a high end #2 starter in the majors if he puts it all together. Great talent and the Marlins definitely need starting pitchers bad.

Chris Shaw is major league ready immediately starting next season and has been incredibly consistent his entire minor league career. Hugely valuable to have a guy who you can easily predict how they'll be in the majors. He may not look like a star in the making, but he could be a consistent presence in the lineup for years to come. Shaw would be the immediate major league replacement for Stanton while Ramos sits in the wings as the long term replacement.

So 3 of these guys would be major league ready right off the bat. Ramos, the only guy who wouldn't be, offers the biggest star potential out of all the players (Carlos Correa comparisons all over the place). The biggest thing I wish in the deal is that they'd go for more starting pitching. The lineup the next few years can survive with a few holes if they choose to hold onto Yelich/Ozuna/Realmuto/Bour as the core. It wouldn't be great but they'd be around league average. The rotation is close to league worst, and Tyler Beede won't help that. You have to hope if this is the Stanton deal that a future Ozuna trade would go all in on acquiring starting pitching.

I like the deal. The Marlins lost the ability to compete during their window when they failed to both draft well and missed in important free agent choices. Jose's death turned a playoff run into an impossibility when it was improbable before.

As somebody mentioned previously, Loria's shrewd negotiating of the contract so that any new ownership got handed an albatross contract left the Marlins without the ability to get an A+ caliber return regardless of him being reigning MVP. This at least offers a long term shortstop, long term #2 starting pitcher, long term outfielder, and one question mark potential star that could turn the deal into a huge win (or if he goes the other way a major loss).

With the team all but set on doing the deal, I don't know an offer that will match this one. No teams with the 'real' star prospects are a fit for a Stanton deal.

If there's a reason to get upset it is because none of the prospects mentioned outside of Ramos have Stanton caliber potential, and Ramos is 18 years old so a ton can change with him as a prospect.

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This would continue the trend though of Marlins liking players with average to below average on base ability though (Shaw .344 OBP, Arroyo .345). Seems to be a low priority for the team's scouting department for the past eight or so years.

[tjfla]

To NO ONE surprise the LAD deadline was extended. Why?? Looks like LAD called Stanton's people and told them they talked some to Miami

Morosi tweeted this at 11:15PM(Midnight was deadline)
Jon MorosiVerified account
@jonmorosi

Source: #Dodgers, #Marlins remained in contact as of Tuesday, but their discussions on Giancarlo Stanton are not serious -- for now. @MLBNetwork @MLB

Now like the tweet said NOTHING Serious(They cant even agree on 1 name) but Stanton's people extended the deadline. Its getting old fast,LAD can't afford him and have little interest however Stanton is dying to go there. Its like the Hot Girl who u wanna date in HS-she says Hi once a week just so u don't talk to other girls but in reality she is just messing with ya

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Arroyo's numbers in the minors (which aren't even that impressive) are .BABIP inflated. He has no power, does not walk & actually strikes out a little bit too much for a guy with no power who does not walk.

Honestly, I think I'd just rather have Panik. Not really exciting either, but at least he's a sure thing who might have trade value at the deadline (especially if his career #'s outside of SF hold up).

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I'm also not sure why we need to trade Bour right now. His value to the team seems like it'd be better than his value in a trade. He's cheap, and 1B (who should be a DH) never really bring back a great return.

Bour seems like the type of value player this franchise should want to keep at this point. (I could be wrong about his trade value, just saying)

U trade Bour only IF u get Shaw in the SF if not u have 3 guys that play 1B. Shaw is a younger Justin Bour(Power guy who is stuck at 1b) and Cooper is the RHB in that platoon. If we were an AL team u could keep him but we aren't. He isn't gonna bring back great stuff but likely get 2 or 3 prospects(Pitching) and Shaw is cheaper

[fish16]

dodgers clearly dont want him, wish stanton would just move on and pick between STL or SF or just say he wants to stay here. We need a resolution to this before the winter meetings next week.

[tjfla]

dodgers clearly dont want him, wish stanton would just move on and pick between STL or SF or just say he wants to stay here. We need a resolution to this before the winter meetings next week.

They want him just want US to help pay for him,take back a contract and send crappy prospects. The offer they sent makes SF offer look 100x better. Well the deadline is now Friday Night(They will extend again when LAD call to say HI again). Staying here will mean total rebuild AND dont be surprised if the "Big Hurt" comes back. U know Stanton hurts a toe and is out for months

[lou]

You trade Bour because he will never be more valuable than right now and he doesn't fit into the plans of the team contending in *maybe* 3 years. 2.2 WAR in 108 games, turning 30 next year, stick only player, 3 cheaper years of arbitration left versus more expensive FA options. Trade him for the best pitching available and call it a day. They can play Dietrich and Cooper at 1B while they figure out a longterm option, let alone if they get another guy like Shaw who seems like an inevitability.

It's really easy. Everyone who they don't have for 5+ years that is of reasonable value needs to go because 2020-2022 is when they will peak with an influx of prospects from last year and this offseason. They need to maximize all of their assets for a new contending window. Bour, Ozuna, Realmuto (unless they sign him for 5 years ala a Salvador Perez deal), Gordon, Straily, Urena, and Barraclough all are coming off peak/good years and they can cash them in for likely good packages now. It's unfortunate as a lot of this is based on the team not working with the death of Fernandez, Chen and Volquez arms falling off, and mismanagement of assets leading to the trade of Stanton, but they have to jump in the pool and scorch earth to do it right. Fans expectations cannot be lower, so rebrand after the deals and blame it all on Loria.

Personally, I think you only keep Yelich, Anderson, Steckenrider, Garcia, Wittgren, Conley (he was so bad he needs to rehabilitate himself), and the farm system. I am 50/50 on Dietrich and Rojas. They should probably stay as they can prove it again and likely improve their stock, but if someone wants them for a fair price, they are fine to trade. That's it.

Fill out the field with a veteran catcher to help the young arms (or sign Realmuto for 5+), trade acquisitions, Rule V, and 1 year veterans you can trade in July if they play well
Fill out the rest of the rotation and pen with trade acquisitions, Rule V, and 1 year innings eater/McGowan RP types you also trade in July if they are playing well

It'll be an ugly 55+ win team but it'll lay the groundwork to building the staff, fixing the farm, identifying some players around Yelich, clearing money for real FA acquisitions, etc.

[tjfla]

Some names we like from LAD are Joc Pederson,Andrew Toles,Mitchell White,Yadier Alvarez,Dennis Santana,Keibert Ruiz,Omar Estevez and Yasmani Grandel(Not really interested but willing to take him)

They have told LAD a package of 3 or 4 things off that list for Stanton and 45 million would get it done. However LAD hasn't even come close to that offer. LAD wants 45 million(maybe more) and Stanton for 45 yr old Brandon McCarthy and mid to low level prospects

LAD thinking is why give up all of that when they can get him for free when he opts out or if they really need him they can just trade for him at the deadline?

Hopefully Jeter knows not to give out full NTC to anyone

[Namaste]

dodgers clearly dont want him, wish stanton would just move on and pick between STL or SF or just say he wants to stay here. We need a resolution to this before the winter meetings next week.

Blame Loria/Sherman/Jeter.

Don’t blame the reigning MVP who has wanted to make the playoffs in Miami for 7 years.

[fish16]

Blame Loria/Sherman/Jeter.

Don’t blame the reigning MVP who has wanted to make the playoffs in Miami for 7 years.

I do blame Loria. This entire contract was idiotic from the start. Im just saying at some point the marlins need to press him for an answer or just keep him and trade the rest of the team. He's known which 2 suitors are trying to get him for weeks now.

[Namaste]

If I’m Stanton, I REALLY want to go to LAD if my current team (where I wanted to stay and win) doesn’t want me.

So I would take AS LONG AS I NEED to make that come to fruition. It’s a life changing event and he gets one shot to get it right.

He doesn’t need to hurry up so the Marlins can start the rest of their 3 year rebuild.

[fish16]

If I’m Stanton, I REALLY want to go to LAD if my current team (where I wanted to stay and win) doesn’t want me.

So I would take AS LONG AS I NEED to make that come to fruition. It’s a life changing event and he gets one shot to get it right.

He doesn’t need to hurry up so the Marlins can start the rest of their 3 year rebuild.

im aware of his rights, im just saying if he doesnt give the marlins an answer he can rot as the only star player on a terrible team for 3 years and then leave via free agency if he isnt willing to work with anything else besides the dodgers. Just move on if thats the case.

[Erick]

The Marlins need to move on and start making other moves.