Miami Marlins 2016 Offseason Discussion Thread

[dim]

I read the Kenley Jansen story. That is the most Marlins story that ever Marlins'd. We need 3 good starting pitchers and the market is currently highly overvaluating closers due to the performance of Andrew Miller and Aroldis Chapman.

Hey, let's go give $100 million to that closer in LA!

It'll be awesome to see what this team does when they're forced to have Jake Esch give thirty starts next season and are paying him a monsterous amount to save 30 games next year because the Marlins can only get to 30 games where they're winning in the 9th.

[emkayseven]

like I said I'd rather see us go with 4 starters for 4-5 innings and have a monster bullpen because baseball is going to get there in 20 years anyway. 20 years ago Tony LaRussa seemed crazy for wasting a roster spot on a guy who could only get lefties out and now every team has two. Let's be trailblazers. 9 shut down relievers throwing gas and 4 decent starters. See what happens. It's basically a lost season anyway.

[Erick]

I read the Kenley Jansen story. That is the most Marlins story that ever Marlins'd. We need 3 good starting pitchers and the market is currently highly overvaluating closers due to the performance of Andrew Miller and Aroldis Chapman.

Hey, let's go give $100 million to that closer in LA!

It'll be awesome to see what this team does when they're forced to have Jake Esch give thirty starts next season and are paying him a monsterous amount to save 30 games next year because the Marlins can only get to 30 games where they're winning in the 9th.

I don't have a problem with it.

[dim]

It's a waste of a lot of money. I have no doubt Jansen would be great at his job, but this team is not a Kenley Jansen signing from being a contender. They are three starting pitchers away from being over .500. Jansen does little to change that outlook.

If they get Jansen there is no more money to spend. It would be grabbing the bottom of the barrel after that. We'd be betting on Wei-Yin Chen, Adam Conley, Tom Koehler, David Phelps, Jose Urena, Jake Esch, and Austin Brice to fill the rotation. None of those starting pitchers has more than 5 or 6 innings at a time in them. A great bullpen very quickly becomes a bad one when they're' used excessively. That is exactly what would happen if the Jansen move takes place.

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like I said I'd rather see us go with 4 starters for 4-5 innings and have a monster bullpen because baseball is going to get there in 20 years anyway. 20 years ago Tony LaRussa seemed crazy for wasting a roster spot on a guy who could only get lefties out and now every team has two. Let's be trailblazers. 9 shut down relievers throwing gas and 4 decent starters. See what happens. It's basically a lost season anyway.

The thing is they're not trying to be revolutionary. Trying to fill a team with a complete bullpen just feels like it'd be taxing as hell on all players. Like you said, we have 4 starters that are likely to average around 5 innings a start this year (Chen, Conley, Koehler, Phelps). So that means Ellington, Wittgren, Ramos, Jansen, and whoever else they bring on will be expected to do 4 innings. That wouldn't be every other start, it would be every single night. At what point does that bullpen start getting taxed? Because if they're expected to do pitch extensive innings every single night, I bet everything they'll get taxed.

The only way I could see something like that working is if they extended it to something like 8 starting pitchers. Say along with Chen, Conley, Koehler, and Phelps, you add Jake Esch, Austin Brice, Jose Urena, and Justin Nicolino. Every night, you give the starting pitcher from the Chen/Conley/Koehler/Phelps team 4 innings (and you extend that an inning or two if they're doing well). Each night, you have 1 guy from the Esch/Brice/Urena/Nicolino quartet to pitch 3 innings or less depending when needed. This takes up 7 innings and gives you two innings to play with the rest of the bullpen. This basically creates co-starting pitchers rather than just a single starter each game. If a team wants to try something extraordinarily bizarre but possibly could work, that is how I would organize that.

EDIT: Thinking about it a bit I don't mind that last idea. I wouldn't trust Brice, Urena, or Nicolino to give the team 5 or 6 great innings, but I could see them holding teams in check for 3 or 4 at a time. Same can be said for Chen/Conley/Koehler/Phelps. I wouldn't mind introducing this kind of idea to the front office. Ramos/Jansen at the back end of that would make every game where the two starters get 7 innings of winning ball in a near guarantee win.

[Nick]

I think the 1st idea and the 2nd idea are pretty much the same idea. Granted it's a little harder in the National League where you have to stick with 12 pitchers most of the time, where in the AL you could maybe get away with 13. 4 Starters, 4 Long-guys, and 4 Back of the bullpen guys.

[rmc523]

The marlins should have gone after Danny Valencia. This team continues to show they dont know how to operate on the margins as a low budget team. Last 3 years has an OPS of .866 against lefties and can play 1b, 3b (not well), and LF. Didnt cost much either.

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Skaggs would be a solid little addition that I would like, however, not sure for Dietrich though. I'd do Urena plus another prospect for him, then combine Dietrich and Ozuna for a SP, then sign a high risk high reward OF in free agency to replace Ozuna. The thing is that none of this is going to amount to much now that Jose is gone, which really fucking sucks.

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Reddick or maybe (very maybe) Carlos Gomez while combining Ozuna and Dietrich in a trade for a higher level SP would be a very good offseason to me. I dont think the indians would do it, but they kind of do need another OF bat, so if they made available Carrasco or Salazar we could revisit that deal with them in the offseason.


Realmuto
Bour/Platoon
Gordon
Hech (hopefully not, my least favorite player but the team loves him)
Prado
Gomez/Reddick
Yelich
Stanton

With a rotation of
Salazar/Carrasco
Conley
Chen
Skaggs
Nicolino/Urena/Koehler etc.

Not good, but not terrible.

We could also target one of the Rays starters if the Indians don't bite.

What about going after Napoli (who I wanted to sign last year) or Holliday as a right handed platoon partner for Bour and bench bat?

---

Reddick just signed with Houston 4/$52.

[HUGG]

I think the 1st idea and the 2nd idea are pretty much the same idea. Granted it's a little harder in the National League where you have to stick with 12 pitchers most of the time, where in the AL you could maybe get away with 13. 4 Starters, 4 Long-guys, and 4 Back of the bullpen guys.

We seem to go lengthy stretches carrying 13 every year

[fauowls44]

This is interesting...

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/re...tKL/story.html

Apparently not happening, but perhaps the start of Loria finally selling?

[Namaste]

This is interesting...

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/re...tKL/story.html

Apparently not happening, but perhaps the start of Loria finally selling?

Thanks for posting that.

That could mean it's likely that some ultra-wealthy inner circles know Loria is at least open to selling.

[rmc523]

This is interesting...

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/re...tKL/story.html

Apparently not happening, but perhaps the start of Loria finally selling?

Thanks for posting that.

That could mean it's likely that some ultra-wealthy inner circles know Loria is at least open to selling.

I've been thinking for a while now that he'll sell after this year.

He'll finally have his All Star game (this year), and all the contracts start to balloon soon. Also, there's been talk of revenue sharing either being eliminated or dramatically decreasing (one of the ways he makes money on the team for himself that will be cut off). I believe the stadium contract also had that clause that said if he sold before a certain point, he had to give a percentage to the city....I believe that period has ended as well, meaning he can make more on selling the team from this point forward. He can use the upcoming TV deal as a selling point to a prospective buyer.

[emkayseven]

It's a waste of a lot of money. I have no doubt Jansen would be great at his job, but this team is not a Kenley Jansen signing from being a contender. They are three starting pitchers away from being over .500. Jansen does little to change that outlook.

If they get Jansen there is no more money to spend. It would be grabbing the bottom of the barrel after that. We'd be betting on Wei-Yin Chen, Adam Conley, Tom Koehler, David Phelps, Jose Urena, Jake Esch, and Austin Brice to fill the rotation. None of those starting pitchers has more than 5 or 6 innings at a time in them. A great bullpen very quickly becomes a bad one when they're' used excessively. That is exactly what would happen if the Jansen move takes place.

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The thing is they're not trying to be revolutionary. Trying to fill a team with a complete bullpen just feels like it'd be taxing as hell on all players. Like you said, we have 4 starters that are likely to average around 5 innings a start this year (Chen, Conley, Koehler, Phelps). So that means Ellington, Wittgren, Ramos, Jansen, and whoever else they bring on will be expected to do 4 innings. That wouldn't be every other start, it would be every single night. At what point does that bullpen start getting taxed? Because if they're expected to do pitch extensive innings every single night, I bet everything they'll get taxed.

The only way I could see something like that working is if they extended it to something like 8 starting pitchers. Say along with Chen, Conley, Koehler, and Phelps, you add Jake Esch, Austin Brice, Jose Urena, and Justin Nicolino. Every night, you give the starting pitcher from the Chen/Conley/Koehler/Phelps team 4 innings (and you extend that an inning or two if they're doing well). Each night, you have 1 guy from the Esch/Brice/Urena/Nicolino quartet to pitch 3 innings or less depending when needed. This takes up 7 innings and gives you two innings to play with the rest of the bullpen. This basically creates co-starting pitchers rather than just a single starter each game. If a team wants to try something extraordinarily bizarre but possibly could work, that is how I would organize that.

EDIT: Thinking about it a bit I don't mind that last idea. I wouldn't trust Brice, Urena, or Nicolino to give the team 5 or 6 great innings, but I could see them holding teams in check for 3 or 4 at a time. Same can be said for Chen/Conley/Koehler/Phelps. I wouldn't mind introducing this kind of idea to the front office. Ramos/Jansen at the back end of that would make every game where the two starters get 7 innings of winning ball in a near guarantee win.

yeah that was kind of my idea, maybe wasn't specific enough, but my idea is 4 starters, 3 power arms in the back as 7-8-9 guys, and 6 "other guys" who can go multiple innings. ramos should be able to go multiple innings too. almost like spring training so you know who's throwing, and if the starter is able to give you 5 then the second guy only has to throw 1 or 2 innings and can be yanked when he's in trouble. if not you go 3-4 innings from the starter, 2-3 from the second guy, and then the back end. mix it up. it will never happen with this team but there WILL be a team out there who tries this soon and it will be the norm in a few decades.

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reddick at 4/52 was less than i thought, i had him pegged at 15 AAV. we should have gotten him and moved ozuna.

[HUGG]

I'm never going to recover from missing out on the Marlins being run by dudes named Mitt and Tagg.

Smdh.

[tjfla]

Cashner to Texas 1 yr 10 mil

[Nick]

Wow

[emkayseven]

if only we allowed beards