Cameron Maybin Thread: Maybin Some Discussion, Maybin Some Fighting, It's All Good!

[nny]

I recall the terms "young Jim Palmer" and "next Roy Halladay" thrown around with him after his 6-1 start or whatever.

By idiots that do things like say Bonifacio is proof the Marlins FO is smarter than everybody else after the first series of the season, and MBA

[Swifty]

Lou, Maybin looks fucking awful because he has an incredibly long swing that makes Charles Johnson's look compact. Maybin looks awful because he takes bad drifting routes to the ball. Maybin looks bad because he more strikeouts this season than he does hits and walks COMBINED.

I don't think I could be any more clear. It's his eye, which leads to a ton of Ks, it's his long swing, which won't let him catch up to fastballs and it's his shockingly plain defensive ability (he doesn't even show flashes, he's just like "there" it's a drift, it's a normalish arm, there's nothing special about him, he drifts, he jumps when he doesn't need to, he always seems like he's out of position) that make me wonder what people saw in him that was so damn special. I bet he fucking killed it with an aluminum bat. You don't hit .800 or whatever he did as a senior unless you do, I don't care how fast you are. Maybe, after the next labor stoppage and we need some new pop in the post steroid world he'll get the chance to use the aluminum again, I don't know.

What I do know is that I really really really don't give a crap what the numbers say he should be doing. So long as he has a huge wind up and a big unfurling swing he won't hit the ball hard. You look at the minor league numbers and say the leap has to be made, I look at his actual physical swing and see no way he's going to consistently hit a major league fastball. Maybe he changes his swing this offseason, but this Cameron Maybin, and this swing is not going to do well in the major leagues.

Is that enough? Or is the only acceptable answer "he's had success in the minors, it has to translate, every successful minor leaguer has gone on to be a successful major leaguer."

[Party]

Look, I'm not going to moderate content on the board

BUT


Stop trying to discredit each other.

This business of going into everyone's closet and pulling out the skeletons is pretty fucking pointless (I've done it too). I don't see why 60% of the discussions on here need to devolve in who's the bigger moron and what purpose that serves. Everyone on here has said some pretty stupid shit in the past, but leave it in the past and discuss the issue at hand.

It makes for good giggle material, and believe me I enjoy this just as much as anyone else. But in the end, this constant back in forth is going to create an atmosphere where no one wants to posts to avoid a flame war.

[Omar]

Look, I'm not going to moderate content on the board

BUT


Stop trying to discredit each other.

This business of going into everyone's closet and pulling out the skeletons pretty fucking pointless (I've done it too). I don't see why 60% of the discussions on here need to devolve in who's the bigger moron and what purpose that serves. Everyone on here has said some pretty stupid shit in the past, but leave it in the past and discuss the issue at hand.

It makes for good giggle material, and believe me I enjoy this just as much as anyone else. But in the end, this constant back in forth is going to create an atmosphere where no one wants to posts to avoid a flame war.

I'm an admin and I approve this message

[Ramp]

But in the end, this constant back in forth is going to create an atmosphere where no one wants to posts to avoid a flame war.

Is this like Hanley be afraid to hit homeruns?

[Fritz]

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

[Namaste]

:mjpop

[Swifty]

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

ummm...yes?

[Ramp]

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Get the Goldshlager away from Fritz
--------------------

I'm just waiting for the day that Ramp reveals he's a fan of the Braves or Red Sox.

more like Mets

[Madman81]

Get the Goldshlager away from Fritz

Ehe, some of the lamest shit ever.

[Flum]

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

This made me lol.

[Bobbob1313]

Look, I'm not going to moderate content on the board

BUT


Stop trying to discredit each other.

This business of going into everyone's closet and pulling out the skeletons is pretty fucking pointless (I've done it too). I don't see why 60% of the discussions on here need to devolve in who's the bigger moron and what purpose that serves. Everyone on here has said some pretty stupid shit in the past, but leave it in the past and discuss the issue at hand.

It makes for good giggle material, and believe me I enjoy this just as much as anyone else. But in the end, this constant back in forth is going to create an atmosphere where no one wants to posts to avoid a flame war.

I feel like I pretty much said this and it became a joke about Swift having the best dick.

[lou]

First Argument - "He has a long swing"

I will never accept this argument for why a player is bad. This explains to me nothing about who a player is.

Second Argument "It's his eye, which leads to tons of Ks"

Ok...... cool. You didn't give me numbers, but this is a reference to numbers. I'm subbing out the small stints elsewhere in the minors, and using his core performance level per year.

2006, A, K/AB 30% (380 AB)
2007, AA, K/AB 28% (296 AB)
2008, AA, K/AB 31% (390 AB)
2009, AAA, K/AB 19% (298 AB)
MLB Career, K/AB 35% (204 AB)
2009, MLB, K/AB 35% (127 AB)

That is, a lot of Ks. Is it his eye? What's the other component of "the eye" we can measure easily.

2006, A, BB/PA 11% (429 PA)
2007, AA, BB/PA 12.5% (339 PA)
2008, AA, BB/PA 13% (460 PA)
2009, AAA, BB/PA 11% (337 PA)
MLB Career, BB/PA 9 % (225 PA)
2009, MLB, BB/PA 10.5% (142 PA)

Ok so he's walked everywhere. He's improved dramatically his K rate in AAA in 2009, while not insulting dropping his BB rate, (which explains his .320 average in NOLA which is great and not entirely BABIP inflated). So this seems to me he sees the ball pretty damn good. Especially considering he has been "old" for every level he's played at. So the K's are going up in the majors? Welcome to breaking bitches Cameron Maybin. Time to learn how to hit left handed pitching too (.727 RHP < - Cool, .557 LHP < - Not cool).

So you see. Argument 2 leads to a conclusion, but it's not what you're trying to support... It's not his eye. The K's suggest it's the swing, which is your first argument. This gives us the paradox of, "you are right, yet wrong." This is the shit that drives me crazy. There is nothing at all wrong with his eye based on Cameron Maybin. But could a long swing suggest these K rates and not catching up to the balls, and explain why he's "dog goneit not hitting the ball on the nose." Sure! That's an enormous 1500+ PA split for his professional career. The point with this is, just make a good argument and just don't type shit? A stream of unconsciousness could get to the right answer, see my Administrative Law Final Exam from the Spring Semester, but that doesn't mean it's a good argument if you're throwing everything against the wall and seeing what sticks. Which is what you tend to do when you start hating on something. "I'm going to bash him from every possible angle, so when he fails because it's inevitable, I'll have nailed the reason why somewhere." Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't. Whatever.

"He has a long swing, making him strikeout. Look at how his K rates have remained constant 28-35%, and it's only a 300 AB outlier in AAA that's different. Look at the MLB spike, and how he can't hit breaking pitches cause he's hitting them at .120 and hitting fastballs at .270." (I made up those BAA numbers, only thing made up here but just typing that as a for example). Something man. I can buy that. I'll counter with a, but I'm encourage by his AAA K decrease and he's fucking 22. Rah Rah Rah. But at least we disagree over substance, and not numbers versus eyeballs. I cannot ever buy, "He has a long swing." WTF does that mean? I know this is a message board and not say.... court so maybe I am unrealistic about my expectations of people defending themselves with evidence, but christ. If anybody should be doing this. It's you.

[Bobbob1313]

First Argument - "He has a long swing"

I will never accept this argument for why a player is bad. This explains to me nothing about who a player is.

Albert Pujols has a pretty long swing and I remember recently reading that he actually doesn't have a very quick swing either (by bat speed).

I know, Cameron Maybin isn't Albert Pujols, but it's not a make or break thing.

[wanks1212]

Most players who are tall (roughly 6'3 and up, maybe 6'4 and up if you want to be picky) are generally believed to have "long swings," unless they're freaks of nature like, for example, Joe Mauer.