Marlins trade Mat Latos, Mike Morse to LA

[lou]

I honestly think we have a decent bench within the organization, the problem is we haven't used it properly.

A bench of:

Ichiro
Dietrich
Rojas
Gillespie
Mathis

Is not that bad, I'd like to upgrade backup catcher, but you have a lot of guys who can play different positions, a defensive wiz in Rojas, power-bat in Dietrich, pinch-hitter in Ichiro.

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Bigger problem is lack of depth in AAA, where if someone goes down you have to immediately call up a Solano.

Respectfully, that bench sucks besides Dietrich.

They need a platoon partner for Bour, a much better 4th OF, and a better backup catcher. I guess you can live with Rojas as a 25th man, but you'd like a better guy there to realistically.

The position players and bullpen are relatively set for next year, assuming nothing large happens like moving Ozuna/Prado/Ramos. They need to spend money to get a big time starter and fix at least 3 of those bench spots. Baker could be one, but Ichiro is sadly done and it's hard to believe Mathis has been in the league for 10 years.

Hopefully they can do this on the cheap and trade Haren, Koehler, and Dunn for a young 1B/OF type of guy and a young left handed backup catcher so they can devote 100% of free agency money on starting pitching, but we'll see what happens.

[Jay]

I'm higher than others on rojas and realistic that we won't sign a backup catcher who is decent.

[tjfla]

Our 40 man is down to 35 now(Kelly/Henderson can both be 60 Day). Maybe we will look to add some ML ready talent(We won't but still fun to think)

[Jay]

Lou you're saying that to have faith that they'll continue making moves. But this past year they went heavy on the trade route with 3 major deals reds, dodgers and yankees. The only deal that clearly upgraded the team was the yankees. And they gutted the top of the system to make those moves. The additional free agent signings have just been a bust. Reyes and Buehle are the only free agent signings that come to mind that turned out alright but they were both overpaid.

[MiamiHomer]

Indians just got Kaminsky from the Cardinals for Brandon Moss. Trade them Ozuna for Carrasco!!

[emkayseven]

In fairness, free agents are almost always overpaid no matter what team they sign with.

The only guys that aren't overpaid are IFAs that pan out (Abreu, et al) or guys that sign extensions. If you hit the free agent market, you're going to be overpaid.

[marlinsfan24]

-I think it's fair to say Latos would net a worse prospect than DeScalfani in a trade right now. Latos is owed around $3 million the rest of this season.
-The value of that draft pick (i.e. how you put it, a lottery ticket), is probably the value of a solid middle reliever (i.e., Morris type) on trade market. Pick would cost them at least $1.5 million.

What's better, to get a slightly worse prospect than DeScalfani, have that competitive pick for a top 8-12 prospect in the system, and have Morse get whatever AB he would get on the bench, or wash your hands clean, get a few maybe bullpen arms, and take that $15 million bucks and use it smarter. I think you can use that money smarter. Those players are not worth $15.

In my opinion, Latos should have had similar value to Kazmir and I'll fight that fight till the end. Instead, the Marlins took their best trade asset and tied a terrible contract to it. I do fault the Marlins for the Morse contract, because I hated it at the time and I definetly thought the second year was unnecessary. So yes, they are still to blame for this trade and I see no other way around that.

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Indians just got Kaminsky from the Cardinals for Brandon Moss. Trade them Ozuna for Carrasco!!

This is a trade I want to see badly want to see happen at this point.

[Nick]

Respectfully, that bench sucks besides Dietrich.

They need a platoon partner for Bour, a much better 4th OF, and a better backup catcher. I guess you can live with Rojas as a 25th man, but you'd like a better guy there to realistically.

The position players and bullpen are relatively set for next year, assuming nothing large happens like moving Ozuna/Prado/Ramos. They need to spend money to get a big time starter and fix at least 3 of those bench spots. Baker could be one, but Ichiro is sadly done and it's hard to believe Mathis has been in the league for 10 years.

Hopefully they can do this on the cheap and trade Haren, Koehler, and Dunn for a young 1B/OF type of guy and a young left handed backup catcher so they can devote 100% of free agency money on starting pitching, but we'll see what happens.

Well, I forgot about Baker, who I'd be all for keeping and platooning with Bour. He could replace Gillespie.

[Jay]

In my opinion, Latos should have had similar value to Kazmir and I'll fight that fight till the end. Instead, the Marlins took their best trade asset and tied a terrible contract to it. I do fault the Marlins for the Morse contract, because I hated it at the time and I definetly thought the second year was unnecessary. So yes, they are still to blame for this trade and I see no other way around that.

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This is a trade I want to see badly want to see happen at this point.

Consider how saturated the market is for starting pitching, it would have been better to keep Latos and try and resign him for next year. There is a lot of starting pitching in free agency this year. Latos still has injury concerns, his wife likes miami, and his basic line looks bad. It's really the perfect situation to sign him to a below rate market deal. If that doesn't happen offer him arbitration and hope he signs elsewhere. And if you can't get overpaying Latos based on an arbitration agreement why the fuck are we paying 3 managers half the time and DFAed Salty after 33 PAs. If you can do that shit you can eat 6 million on a starting pitcher who is productive when you have nothing.

I have zero problem with not spending money. I have a huge problem with how poorly they spend money. Hire an analytics department, keep a puppet manager or at least til the end of his contract, try and avoid the free agent market, and draft well. IFA isn't even a big issue if you buyout contracts and draft right.

[marlinsfan24]

Consider how saturated the market is for starting pitching, it would have been better to keep Latos and try and resign him for next year. There is a lot of starting pitching in free agency this year. Latos still has injury concerns, his wife likes miami, and his basic line looks bad. It's really the perfect situation to sign him to a below rate market deal. If that doesn't happen offer him arbitration and hope he signs elsewhere. And if you can't get overpaying Latos based on an arbitration agreement why the fuck are we paying 3 managers half the time and DFAed Salty after 33 PAs. If you can do that shit you can eat 6 million on a starting pitcher who is productive when you have nothing.

I have zero problem with not spending money. I have a huge problem with how poorly they spend money. Hire an analytics department, keep a puppet manager or at least til the end of his contract, try and avoid the free agent market, and draft well. IFA isn't even a big issue if you buyout contracts and draft right.

Yup. This team does nothing like a normal front office. I don't think the front office actually excels in anything.

[MiamiHomer]

It excels in incompetence.

[Jay]

It excels in incompetence.

or being the worst. I honestly don't think this is an ownership issue at all other than that Loria has yet to fire these dumbasses and replace them with someone competent that will slash payroll at his will.

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And I forgot who said it in this thread, but the collective board could operate a better front office than these schmucks without any additional scouting or analytics resources other than subscriptions to the major baseball references which a lot of you already have.

[Bobbob1313]

or being the worst. I honestly don't think this is an ownership issue at all .

lol

[marlinsfan24]

Yeah, Jay, cannot get on board with that. The problems start at the owner and then trickle down.

[lou]

In my opinion, Latos should have had similar value to Kazmir and I'll fight that fight till the end. Instead, the Marlins took their best trade asset and tied a terrible contract to it. I do fault the Marlins for the Morse contract, because I hated it at the time and I definetly thought the second year was unnecessary. So yes, they are still to blame for this trade and I see no other way around that.

Fair enough on the Morse deal, but I wasn't insulted on a 2/$16 deal for a guy coming off a pretty good season and whose value was likely to increase given he would be at 1B and not the OF. I think that is OK, but in hindsight, Bell, Buck, and Salty were all relatively OK (a little overspending, but if you want to contend you got to do that here and there) also so they are swinging and missing a lot on those. That's my issue. Sure, they created the problem, but at least they made a smart move getting out of it. I guess that's why some of you are yelling at me. It's saying good job cleaning up the pile of shit they created. I get it, but at least they cleaned it up the pile of shit relatively and didn't lose much in the process. Let's be honest, the prospect for Latos and the comp pick is not a lot of value. Frustrating, but what can you do.

Also, Latos is not Kazmir. Latos has pitched 188 innings the last 2 years due to injury at a high 3 era. Kazmir has pitched 307 innings at a low 3 era. Kazmir 5.6 WAR, Latos 3.1. Kazmir is also a lefty. This isn't close. Don't let Latos good 7-8 starts from when he has been back fool you. Latos injury concerns and performance knock him down a bit.

It's also funny you mention Kazmir, because the $17 million the Marlins have saved through Latos, Morse, Cishek, and the comp pick can fund probably 33-50% of Kazmirs next contract. He's exactly the kind of veteran lefty they need assuming they do not go for broke with Greinke/Cueto, and look for one of those second tier # 3 SP. I find that much more likely.