Marlins trade Mat Latos, Mike Morse to LA

[thatnewguy]

We're now what the Royals and Pirates were. Just wait, boys. In 2034, we're gonna kick so much ass.

[tjfla]

Gotta spend cash to get talent. That was the reason for the IFA Pool and same with Extra Picks.

[Erick]

Why not be more like Philly? They're going through a losing period, just like we did in 2013, but that followed five straight NL East titles (in case you haven't noticed, we're 0-for-23 on that one), two NL titles, a World Series win, and down seasons that they were at least competitive. They spent money to keep their own players in place and they added players via trades and free agency. Not to mention, regardless of how many games they lose this season and next, they'll use their top draft picks smartly and then actually rebuild through trades, drafting, and free agency. There is no doubt that Philadelphia, much like Houston has done this season, will be back and not stuck in limbo for as long as we have been.

a) The Phillies are a case of spending money not always being the answer. Bringing their own players back was a terrible idea and set the franchise back many years.
b) Philly's front office is nothing like Houston's. As far as I know, Ruben Amaro is still running the show and he's terrible.

[tjfla]

Andy McPhail is now running the show and u should take a look at there farm system especially now

Just easier to bitch about nothing I guess

[Bobbob1313]

This trade literally featured them making a move solely for the purpose of not spending money in the draft. They traded something specifically designed to give low-revenue/bad teams a leg up.

Like, forget the $14m they saved by moving Morse and Latos. Whatever.

They traded a competitive balance pick, which is basically a lottery ticket that will cost them $1.5 million. How can we look at this trade and say, "Yep, they'll re-invest in the team." That's ridiculous.

The sad thing is that there's a legit core in place to build a competitive team. Like, they don't even have to spend a ton of money.

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The sad thing is that there's a legit core in place to build a competitive team. Like, they don't even have to spend a ton of money.

They have two top-8 players at 26 or under. This shouldn't be that hard.

[thatnewguy]

I'm pretty sure that Ruben Amaro and Pat Gillick will be out at the end of the season. And while they may not be as statistically-inclined as Houston, they still are an actual front office that has built up their farm system to be at least something and re-applied themselves to actually do what the Marlins won't, re-invest the money. Not just a handful of dollars here and there, but to be actual major free agent players when the time is right.

[Erick]

Andy McPhail is now running the show and u should take a look at there farm system especially now

They're still very far away from competing and there's no guarantee that all or most of those players pan out. What's so special about their farm system now, anyway? For comparison's sake, we're all down on this team and I'd say that the Marlins have a better core in place than the Phillies even after the Hamels trade. Let's not do this thing where we pretend like we're the worst and we'll always be the worst because we're the Marlins. The Phillies are terrible and are going to be terrible for many years. I would rather not be them.

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I'm pretty sure that Ruben Amaro and Pat Gillick will be out at the end of the season. And while they may not be as statistically-inclined as Houston, they still are an actual front office that has built up their farm system to be at least something and re-applied themselves to actually do what the Marlins won't, re-invest the money. Not just a handful of dollars here and there, but to be actual major free agent players when the time is right.

We were major free agent players once and it didn't work. The Phillies didn't get to this point by accident. They've been major free agent players too, and have spent money in stupid fashion. Lets at least agree that the Phillies are right there with us in terms of incompetence.

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This trade literally featured them making a move solely for the purpose of not spending money in the draft. They traded something specifically designed to give low-revenue/bad teams a leg up.

Like, forget the $14m they saved by moving Morse and Latos. Whatever.

They traded a competitive balance pick, which is basically a lottery ticket that will cost them $1.5 million. How can we look at this trade and say, "Yep, they'll re-invest in the team." That's ridiculous.



They have two top-8 players at 26 or under. This shouldn't be that hard.

Exactly, that's the most frustrating thing about this team. They can't build around the best power hitter in the game, and, arguably, the best pitcher in the game when healthy.

[thatnewguy]

I disagree with that. The Phillies didn't get to what they were just four years ago by accident either. They had a plan in place and utilized it, bringing in-house players like Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, and Cole Hamels with the likes of Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee. That team won. Did they hang on to them for too long? Yes. But let's not pretend that they were shitty and incompetent when they built a team that won nearly 500 games over a 5-year stretch. I'd take a stretch of being awful if it meant I had a legit contender and team that actually won for an extended period as opposed to being terrible following being slightly less terrible.

[HUGG]

The fart noises thing is hilarious and the only good thing this team has done in a while.

[Swifty]

Godfather summed it up best. There's nothing fun about the Marlins. Which is a shame because they probably have the best foundation of any club in baseball with Giancarlo, Yelich and Jose.

[Bobbob1313]

They can't build around them because they won't invest in the little things, like a robust analytics department (or won't listen to them if they have one, which I doubt, won't invest in the middle things like the draft or international free agency, and they won't invest in the big things like an average major-league payroll.

They can't draft as many high-upside prospects because they won't invest in the draft, so they don't have as many bullets in the chamber when their young guys flop like Kolek or when they need to make a trade. They aren't players in international free agency, so they don't have the potential to add in-their-prime impact players. And they won't or can't invest in the team when they have an obvious competitive window, like, say, the prime of the best power hitter in baseball and the best young pitcher since Dwight Gooden.

They're not the Phillies right now, but at least the Phillies have money. In the long run, I'd rather root for the dumb team that spends than the dumb team that doesn't. At least you have a bigger room for error.

[Erick]

I disagree with that. The Phillies didn't get to what they were just four years ago by accident either. They had a plan in place and utilized it, bringing in-house players like Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, and Cole Hamels with the likes of Roy Halladay and Cliff Lee. That team won. Did they hang on to them for too long? Yes. But let's not pretend that they were shitty and incompetent when they built a team that won nearly 500 games over a 5-year stretch. I'd take a stretch of being awful if it meant I had that for an extended period as opposed to being terrible following being slightly less terrible.

The game has also transitioned to being more analytical since those Phillies runs of dominance. It's not very often that you luck into developing a 50 HR hitter like Ryan Howard. As far as I know, they don't have that in their system, but I could be wrong.

All I know is that as things stand now, they have a long way to go. A longer way to go than the Marlins. Who are they building around right now that's so great? Maikel Franco and Aaron Nola?

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They can't build around them because they won't invest in the little things, like a robust analytics department (or won't listen to them if they have one, which I doubt, won't invest in the middle things like the draft or international free agency, and they won't invest in the big things like an average major-league payroll.

They can't draft as many high-upside prospects because they won't invest in the draft, so they don't have as many bullets in the chamber when their young guys flop like Kolek or when they need to make a trade. They aren't players in international free agency, so they don't have the potential to add in-their-prime impact players. And they won't or can't invest in the team when they have an obvious competitive window, like, say, the prime of the best power hitter in baseball and the best young pitcher since Dwight Gooden.

They're not the Phillies right now, but at least the Phillies have money. In the long run, I'd rather root for the dumb team that spends than the dumb team that doesn't. At least you have a bigger room for error.

But, to be fair, the dumb team that doesn't spend money has some core players locked up for the next handful of years or so. I mean, you never know what's going to happen with this dumb team, but I'd rather have this situation than what the Phillies currently have. Like, I'd rather be building around the best power hitter in the game and one of the best pitchers in the game and hope that they luck into getting it right one year. The Phillies don't have that or anything close to that and they're not likely to find it any time soon.

Also, it's sad that this conversation has turned into an "at least we're better than the Phillies, maybe!" conversation. This front office really sucks.

[thatnewguy]

It doesn't matter that the way people look at the way the game has changed since success is success is success. At the end of the day, and I understand this is hugely cliched but stick with me on this, the only stats that matter are wins and losses. The Phillies won more games from 2006-2012 than any other team in all of baseball and while they may not have a prospect in their system right now, it at least means the fans there can give someone the benefit of the doubt because there is something in the recent past to hold on to. They can brace through two, three, or even four epic, disastrous seasons a la Houston Astros because they have evidence to suggest that their organization has winning in their best interests. They are not going to suck to pocket money, then half-ass an attempt to be good, then suck again and repeat.

The Marlins have no history of success short of 2 out of 23 seasons, and have a lot more evidence to suggest they have no idea what they are doing. For god's sake, they have Stanton, they have Fernandez, Gordon, Yelich, and they can't manage to even reach .500. They have more players and are in a better state than the Phillies are right now, but what makes you think that will be the case three/four years from now?

[Swifty]

They can't build around them because they won't invest in the little things, like a robust analytics department (or won't listen to them if they have one, which I doubt, won't invest in the middle things like the draft or international free agency, and they won't invest in the big things like an average major-league payroll.

They can't draft as many high-upside prospects because they won't invest in the draft, so they don't have as many bullets in the chamber when their young guys flop like Kolek or when they need to make a trade. They aren't players in international free agency, so they don't have the potential to add in-their-prime impact players. And they won't or can't invest in the team when they have an obvious competitive window, like, say, the prime of the best power hitter in baseball and the best young pitcher since Dwight Gooden.

They're not the Phillies right now, but at least the Phillies have money. In the long run, I'd rather root for the dumb team that spends than the dumb team that doesn't. At least you have a bigger room for error.

Yeah this is pretty much spot on.

What's even more incredible is these guys literally lucked into Jose and Stanton. Like blind mice finding the fucking cheese. They did the hardest thing to do as a major league franchise, develop a super star position player and pitcher and have their "primes" line up with one another. The best they can say they've done to help that is be right for the wrong reasons on Dee Gordon because you know they loved him for the "game changing speed" or whatever the fuck it is they always get enamored with on the no OBP leadoff guys.

I can't imagine that there are people that still support this team.

[Bobbob1313]

The Marlins are definitely in better shape than the Phillies for the next five years or so.

So, if we're all dead by 2020, it works out great.

Marlins Baseball: Just Hope You're Dead Before The Phillies Catch Up