2023-2024 Offseason Thread

[lou]

jon berti is a 34 year old futility man who saw his SB production dip from 41 to 16 with more ab's last year than 2022. 4 of his career high 7 homers last year came in a 1 week stretch. spare me the outrage. Each one of your beloved fangraphs projection models had him at 1.2 WAR or less this year. He's not all that special of a hitter and he's nothing spectacular in the field. He was a guy we got for nothing who gave us good production for a number of years who we are flipping to help restock the organization's minor leagues like the rays do.

Anderson will start everyday at SS, Burger will start most days at 3b, arraez everyday at 2b, The rest of the ab's go to Edwards and Brujan and Myers. It's fine.

Are you a FO plant with this bullshit? Acknowledging it's a good trade before seeing all of it is super weird.

Berti has been a 2+ WAR player the last two seasons and is a championship quality super utility guy. He's great for who he is. I wish the Marlins had a lot more Bertis - yes the Marlins need many more players who can project to 1.2 in 400 PA (which is 1.8 per 600 so you know, which only 6 guys on the team beat last year and I am extrapolating Burger/Bell time to get there).

At the same time, he is absolutely expendable because I agree why not just play Edwards - I am on the Free Edwards bandwagon even if the obvious solution was Garcia - but you still have to get value for the player.

It's waiting to see who the Tampa guy is, but the Yankees guy is the 2nd/3rd player in the deal at best here. If they got another low level guy from the Rays, it's a bad move even if Edwards, Brujan, and Dane are interesting in their own right.

[fish16]

Are you a FO plant with this bullshit? Acknowledging it's a good trade before seeing all of it is super weird.

Berti has been a 2+ WAR player the last two seasons and is a championship quality super utility guy. He's great for who he is. I wish the Marlins had a lot more Bertis - yes the Marlins need many more players who can project to 1.2 in 400 PA (which is 1.8 per 600 so you know, which only 6 guys on the team beat last year and I am extrapolating Burger/Bell time to get there).

At the same time, he is absolutely expendable because I agree why not just play Edwards - I am on the Free Edwards bandwagon even if the obvious solution was Garcia - but you still have to get value for the player.

It's waiting to see who the Tampa guy is, but the Yankees guy is the 2nd/3rd player in the deal at best here. If they got another low level guy from the Rays, it's a bad move even if Edwards, Brujan, and Dane are interesting in their own right.

I'm fine trading any 34 year old super utility guys that rely on speed with no power for high upside prospects in years where we likely wont compete and you have young guys that have mastered AAA and have earned a shot at the big league level. What he's done the last 2 years is over. It's about what he will do moving forward and what you can get to replace that playing time and what you can get in a trade to help the organization.

It's good business as a team that wont spend money unfortunately. It's an unfortunate reality that has resulted almost entirely from our inability to draft or sign young guys and develop their bats. We have absolutely nothing in terms of hitting prospects in our system.

[lou]

I'm fine trading any 34 year old super utility guys that rely on speed with no power for high upside prospects in years where we likely wont compete and you have young guys that have mastered AAA and have earned a shot at the big league level. What he's done the last 2 years is over. It's about what he will do moving forward and what you can get to replace that playing time and what you can get in a trade to help the organization.

It's good business as a team that wont spend money unfortunately. It's an unfortunate reality that has resulted almost entirely from our inability to draft or sign young guys and develop their bats. We have absolutely nothing in terms of hitting prospects in our system.

But these are the higher upside prospects? Sasaki isn't top 46 on Fangraphs - https://blogs.fangraphs.com/tampa-ba...rospects-2023/. They are pretty good at this even if there are obvious misses. Not listed on MLB pipeline either. He's 23 and hasn't played in AA. Like WTF? That being said, he has a great RHP split from last year and did hit well even if old for the level.

If one of these guys gets graded as an FV45 and the other a FV40 it ultimately is slightly light, but makes some sense if these guys are ones they really like and want to bet on. But they don't have these grades right now unless they were extremely overlooked with the current scouting sources.

This feels like there should be another move coming also because frankly, Brujan(?) is the backup SS now and Amaya is option 3? They should have another 2B/SS type to make Arraez/Burger/Bell the combo 1B, with Burger/Bell getting most of 3B and limiting Burger's time at 3B. This team has position issues and its opening day tomorrow.

[Namaste]

4 of his career high 7 homers last year came in a 1 week stretch.

Ah yes. Classic fish16. He loves to do this with DLC.

Because Jon Berti hit 4 of those HR's in one week, THEY DONT ACTUALLY COUNT!

Weeeeeeeeeeeee

[fish16]

But these are the higher upside prospects? Sasaki isn't top 46 on Fangraphs - https://blogs.fangraphs.com/tampa-ba...rospects-2023/. They are pretty good at this even if there are obvious misses. Not listed on MLB pipeline either. He's 23 and hasn't played in AA. Like WTF? That being said, he has a great RHP split from last year and did hit well even if old for the level.

If one of these guys gets graded as an FV45 and the other a FV40 it ultimately is slightly light, but makes some sense if these guys are ones they really like and want to bet on. But they don't have these grades right now unless they were extremely overlooked with the current scouting sources.

This feels like there should be another move coming also because frankly, Brujan(?) is the backup SS now and Amaya is option 3? They should have another 2B/SS type to make Arraez/Burger/Bell the combo 1B, with Burger/Bell getting most of 3B and limiting Burger's time at 3B. This team has position issues and its opening day tomorrow.

BA has sasaki 21 in a great rays organization.

BA Grade: 45/High

Track Record: After a solid but modest debut in the Florida Complex League in 2021, Sasaki was one of the better players in the Low-A Carolina League in 2022 as he helped the RiverDogs to their second of three straight titles. Sasaki was once again one of the more polished hitters in 2023, this time in the High-A South Atlantic League. He then had a solid stint in the Arizona Fall League, where he stole 13 bases in 13 tries in 22 games.

Scouting Report: Sasaki has simplified his setup as a pro, raising his hands but toning down a coil and timing step he once used. It has helped him get on time more consistently, and he’s developed into a line-drive hitter who tries to hit the ball up the middle or to right field, the opposite field for the righthanded hitter. Sasaki is a top- or bottom-of-the-order tablesetter with below-average power. A nearly double-plus runner, Sasaki is also an above-average defender in center field and left. He can play right, but his arm is fringe-average.

The Future: Sasaki was Rule 5 eligible and unpicked, which isn’t all that surprising because he’s yet to play above Class A. He most likely profiles as a fourth outfielder who can play left and center field, run and hit for average. There is still some concern about how well he can hold up over a full season. He’ll jump to Double-A Montgomery in 2024.

Scouting Grades Hit: 50 | Power: 40 | Run: 65 | Field: 55 | Arm: 45

[lou]

It's a salary dump, though. Don't forget that when the Marlins traded Salas the spin was, "18 year old prospects very rarely step foot on a MLB field".

I agree at least 51% is this, i.e. the deciding factor. However maybe they are right and one of these guys is OK. I am a believer in getting rid of guys a year early versus two years late, and Fish16 isn't wrong about his age, but this feels very light. Also, if they did this a month ago and then you know, signed Rosario for $1.5m, or Urshela for $1.5m, or Davis for $2.5m it makes a ton more sense then today. So it begs the question, WTF are they doing?


This moves payroll to around $91.5m, but probably closer to $92m as they have some injury replacements for a month with the 4 pitchers hurt.

So around $18m less than when they made the playoffs last year.

[fish16]

Ah yes. Classic fish16. He loves to do this with DLC.

Because Jon Berti hit 4 of those HR's in one week, THEY DONT ACTUALLY COUNT!

Weeeeeeeeeeeee

I was correct with DLC. He has hot streaks that raise his overall numbers so they are not indicative of how dog shit he is as a player for the vast majority of the year. When you got rid of the hot streak he was a shit negative WAR player last year because he isnt good and his numbers were wildly inflated by a 2 week stretch in meaningless september 2022 baseball. De La Cruz had a low .600's OPS for all of 2022 until a 2 week stretch where he was on fire and made his numbers and overall performance look passable when it was clear from watching him all year that he sucked.

No one says the numbers dont count, but they arent indicative of what a guy is for the vast majority of the season. Berti slugged .405 last year and his career slugging is .368. It's not about what a guy did, it's about what he is going to do moving forward, and he is more of a 3-4 HR guy than a 7-10 HR guy, which is a big difference.

[Nick]

Slightly underwhelming return for the best utility man in baseball. Cruz could be something, but you never know when they're still in rookie ball. Sasaki looks destined to be a 4th OF, although him being drafted in 2019 and not made it to AA yet is a little concerning.

[lou]

I was correct with DLC. He has hot streaks that raise his overall numbers so they are not indicative of how dog shit he is as a player for the vast majority of the year. When you got rid of the hot streak he was a shit negative WAR player last year because he isnt good and his numbers were wildly inflated by a 2 week stretch in meaningless september 2022 baseball.

No one says the numbers dont count, but they arent indicative of what a guy is for the vast majority of the season. Berti slugged .405 last year and his career slugging is .368. It's not about what a guy did, it's about what he is going to do moving forward, and he is more of a 3-4 HR guy than a 7-10 HR guy, which is a big difference.

(It's about the defense and versatility with Berti not his slugging percentage)


The trade is light for me, but we'll see if they are right with either of those guys.

As well as, one of Edwards, Brujan, Amaya, or Bride..... or Garcia..... is going to need to really surprise here to make this up.

[fish16]

(It's about the defense and versatility with Berti not his slugging percentage)


The trade is light for me, but we'll see if they are right with either of those guys.

As well as, one of Edwards, Brujan, Amaya, or Bride..... or Garcia..... is going to need to really surprise here to make this up.

Edwards, Myers, and Brujan also have versatility. Each can play at least 3 positions, younger, cheaper, and with some upside because of the age and unknown. Each of those guys has earned a chance to get legitimate ab's in the majors. Lets see what they can do. Edwards had one of the more remarkable AAA seasons last year. His plate discipline was ridiculous, he is just as fast if not faster, and he hit for super high average. he has earned a shot.

What im saying in regards to berti is that it isnt about saying he did X last year, he will do X again next year 1 year older. It's about the context of the stats, and the stats last year were misleading in regards to what he actually is as a player.

Solid player, but older, can get 2 solid prospects for him, and see what young guys can do.

Plus nick gordon has talent as well.

[lou]

Slightly underwhelming return for the best utility man in baseball. Cruz could be something, but you never know when they're still in rookie ball. Sasaki looks destined to be a 4th OF, although him being drafted in 2019 and not made it to AA yet is a little concerning.

At least Sasaki can play CF and is right handed. Those are two things lacking in this organization.

Is opening day really tomorrow with this shit?

This also opens up a 40 man spot FWIW if something else is coming.

[Namaste]

Slightly underwhelming return for the best utility man in baseball.

100%

Just feels very payroll related to me. Does absolutely nothing to make the 2024 Marlins any better. And on the eve of 2024 Opening Day.

[Nick]

So who gets Berti's spot Edwards or Myers?

[fish16]

So who gets Berti's spot Edwards or Myers?

id guess edwards. Myers would be if they smarten up and get rid of garcia

[Nick]

I get Bendix's familiarity with the Rays coming from there, but are 90% of the moves he makes going to have some kind of Rays connection?