2023-2024 Offseason Thread

[fish16]

This is where you are just flat out wrong and you gotta get over Justin Turner not signing here, with the Marlins coming off a 93 loss season.

Chapman, Snell, and Bellinger feel on their faces and Montgomery - who is a top 25-50 SP in baseball in his prime - isn't signed. They literally do not have options and are taking lifeboat 1 year deals effectively. They clearly all want to be paid which is why they are all in this mess. The Marlins offering guaranteed deals to these guys a little bit more gets it done and everyone is a vast upgrade here. They are a playoff team with money. In Miami which is a nice place to be a millionaire IMO. San Francisco is genius what they are doing.

On the other end of the spectrum, very solid guys like Davis, Rosario, Urshela, Taylor, Pham, Duval, Lorenzen, Clevinger, and sure Anderson, are signing deals worth nothing. Literally nothing. $5m and less is nothing in the scheme of baseball. They literally do not have options and are taking what they can get as there is no market because team's are bumping on luxury thresholds or non-contending and really cutting books, and that removes 50% of the league for them. Disagree on a name or two there as being valuable, but a few of those guys will be good this year.

The middler tier - tell me why Kansas City (Lugo 3/$45, 2/$32m) is more likely to contend than Miami and how those guys want to live in Missouri. Do you think those guys might just be chasing $$$$ on a bad team???? Those aren't expensive deals. Do you think Candelario (who is Dominican) would have signed for 3/$45m with the Marlins, or really loves the great American city of Cincinnati? The Reds have so many bats coming he has playing time issues once they are healthy. Maybe it was the money and has nothing to do with the team? The Marlins can afford that. I bet Soler resigns less than 3/$42m to stay in Miami versus San Francisco. The Marlins can afford that. He's not a good fit for DH reasons, but we're talking about a barrier to signing here and this would not have been a thing if Soler was offered. Same for Gurriel. You think a Cuban guy for equal money isn't signing in Miami off a playoff run versus the middle of a literal desert?


Go big, go medium, or go cheap. The guys are there for the Marlins in $110m payrolls which they did last year, as only some nominal deferrals to next year in a worst case scenario would get you there (see payroll might be $65m for 23+ guys from posts above. They have space). Ownership is NOT. Or the Front Office is NOT and this is intentionally to tank this year to get "their guys" for 2025. Which again, may be a good idea but it just sucks for 2024 purposes.

People will sign here. Like Garcia did. Like Segura did. Like Tim did. It's not even a debate. They just have to commit the money and now they can show the winning path for the Turner types as they did make the playoffs and have the SP to back it.

If youre example of "people will sign here" is us wildly overpaying garcia, signing Segura to a small 2 year deal, and tim anderson to a 1 year, 5 million deal on a bounceback deal after he was neck and neck with wendle as the worst player in baseball last year, you dont have a good argument. I'm talking about actual, desired, free agents. Snell got 32 million per year, Bellinger got like 27 million a year, and Chapman got 17 million per year. No players of that caliber want to sign here. It will take consistent winning and a commitment to winning until that actually happens. And the way that will happen is through paying their own guys and creating a winning culture that rewards success.

You can continue to look at it with rose colored glasses, but you yourself wouldnt sign here if you were a desired free agent. There is a reason why everyone we sign is either a wild overpay or a reclamation project coming off a down year.

[fish16]

dane myers optioned. Pathetic. They are going to go with garcia to start the year 100%. This team is so poorly managed. God forbid we reward good performance over dead money

[fish16]

awesome for sixto. i hope he can eventually be stretched out again, but i doubt they will try that this year. Maybe best to just let him try to be a weapon out of the pen.

[lou]

dane myers optioned. Pathetic. They are going to go with garcia to start the year 100%. This team is so poorly managed. God forbid we reward good performance over dead money

Correct move, needs every day PA he would not get MLB level. Garcia aside, this is what is good for his development as a P convert

[lou]

If youre example of "people will sign here" is us wildly overpaying garcia, signing Segura to a small 2 year deal, and tim anderson to a 1 year, 5 million deal on a bounceback deal after he was neck and neck with wendle as the worst player in baseball last year, you dont have a good argument. I'm talking about actual, desired, free agents. Snell got 32 million per year, Bellinger got like 27 million a year, and Chapman got 17 million per year. No players of that caliber want to sign here. It will take consistent winning and a commitment to winning until that actually happens. And the way that will happen is through paying their own guys and creating a winning culture that rewards success.

You can continue to look at it with rose colored glasses, but you yourself wouldnt sign here if you were a desired free agent. There is a reason why everyone we sign is either a wild overpay or a reclamation project coming off a down year.

All 3 of them and Montgomery would sign with Miami if they offered the most guaranteed money with those opt outs given. Not even a debate. As well as all these other FA mentioned who are getting shit offers. All of them. It’s a full stop comment and move on. The problem isn’t Miami. The problem is the money. Meaning ownership. Just look at the market as it’s proving you wrong when guys are signing in Kansas City and Oakland because that’s the only money they can get.

If they have the money, people will sign. It’s not a deep analysis. You don’t need to over think this. Turner is a dude who made $80m bucks and was 38. He’s not the benchmark of major free agents not getting multi year deals and the smaller guys like JD. Don’t over think it.

it’s the money

[sports24/7]

Minor Elbow Inflammation for Eury. Starts the season in the IL. No surgery recommended.

Obviously great news, but hopefully this isn’t one of those delaying the inevitable things.

[rmc523]

Minor Elbow Inflammation for Eury. Starts the season in the IL. No surgery recommended.

Remember, this is the Marlins medical staff. The staff were a blister, put a few days, turns into arm amputation.
This means he’ll be out until August and they’ll announce he’s getting TJ surgery on August 14th and be out all of next year too…

[lou]

Cough Jackson Holliday service time manipulation Cough

(Edwards is June, Max is July)

[Namaste]

99 times out of 100, players will play for the team that will give them the most money. I can't believe this is even a discussion on this forum.

[fish16]

Max meyer is the 5th starter. Glad they arent playing dumb service time games.

[lou]

Max meyer is the 5th starter. Glad they arent playing dumb service time games.

I agree that’s the best move for on field performance as the alternative is frankly Faucher, McCaughan, or Guitterez. But they can send him down pretty quick and call back in July once Garrett is ready in 1-2 weeks. Don’t be so sure here. I still think the better number on Max’s service time end of the year is 1.168 days exactly. This may be a quick hook after 2 appearances ultimately. (Alternatively they can do what you want and give him an arbitration buyout if they are true believers and then it’s irrelevant).

This also then makes their off-season even dumber as if you are going to not consider service time control issues with one of your best long term assets, why are you not trying to win and refused to upgrade Garcia or DLC or Hoeing with players they could have signed for under $3m when payroll is roughly $94m?

At least we all agree here there is a clear lack of vision, however a quick send down when Garrett is back would clear that up for me.

[Namaste]

Max meyer is the 5th starter. Glad they arent playing dumb service time games.

Backs against the wall otherwise they would. Only 4 starters hurt.

[fish16]

Mancini gone. Casali not on opening day roster but hasn’t decided whether he will opt for free agency yet

[Namaste]

Only 2 teams hit less HR's than the Marlins in Spring Training

[lou]

Backs against the wall otherwise they would. Only 4 starters hurt.

Don't be so sure at that at all with Braxton coming back in a few weeks. They can keep up Max for 2 starts (roughly 11 service days) and this then changes his service time deflection from the week of July 7th to after the ASB July 19-25th homestand. Basically, NBD. I said this in my previous posts they can be strategic with Max 2-4 spot starts the first few months and still kick the service time.

So maybe Max is this

April 1 - LAA
April 7 - @ STL (11 service days)

The next time they need a 5th SP is April 17th. So they can carry a reliever April 8-16th and Garrett is back the 17th, or sooner if he is deemed ready and they can get an extra day for some guys.

Max will be sent down with the excuse of "we want him pitching as a SP and to be stretched out as there are guys above him on the depth chart and he won't get those innings at the MLB level." Maybe he gets pounded also so it's not even a debate. He can then do 14 starts in AAA (one per week, 60+ innings) and come up the last 10 weeks of the season after the ASB for 10-12 appearances (40-50 IP). That gets him around 110-120 IP which is likely the most they'd want him to throw.

I'm still going with roughly 50% of his innings in AAA and 1.167-1.171 days of service time at the end of the year. We're talking at most 50-60 MLB innings versus having an in your prime 30 year old Max Meyer in his last arbitration year. This is what an efficient small market franchise would do in preserving a season (look at how valuable that last Glasnow contral year turned out to be) so I'd be surprised if they just throw him in a likely non-contending year. Of course an arbitration buyout also deems this irrelevant but not sure you can go there with Max for 2 years off the big surgery plus all the other arm depth they have.