2023-2024 Offseason Thread

[lou]

Anthony Maldonado should be in the bullpen to start the year. He was great in AAA and has looked good in spring.

They have nowhere near the room for that guy even with Cabrera/Garrett out.

Luzardo, Eury, Weathers, Rogers, Puk
Scott, Nardi, Chargois, Bender, Soriano, Sixto
12th - Faucher, Hoeing, McCaughan
13th - Cronin, Munoz, Maldonado, Simpson

Service time(?) - Max
Visa(?) - Brazoban
IL - Garrett, Cabrera
60 day - Sandy

A lot of options are coming first 3-4 weeks. I can see them opening with Hoeing, Cronin, and Munoz w/ Soriano in AAA, and Soriano comes up game 5 to be a combo SP with that person, and it's just constant every 2 appearance options after that for the 12/13th spots. Maldonado may get a cup of coffee in that revolving door, but I'd take the under on 5 innings for the season. He is a 2025 guy to me.

[lou]

betancourt has had a pretty good spring with the bat and is clearly a force in the run game, but fortes has been just as bad with the bat thus far as he was last year, if not worse. I dont see why he would be guaranteed a spot over Casali. Id rather see fortes go down and get some at bats. Casali had a great reputation as a defender and handling pitches in san francisco and he has some pop in his bat.

This one is easy, they have to kick someone off the 40 man to add Casali. They need every arm right now with the injuries, so they'd be losing Amaya, Dane, Bride (they seem to like him?), Mesa Jr., etc. to keep him.

They could DFA Garcia for him, but I am refusing to accept they don't sign JD Davis/Taylor/Duvall/Pham yet. I'm not through that stage of grief yet.

[Namaste]

Nick nailed the Brian Hoeing starts

[lou]

Nick nailed the Brian Hoeing starts

12th - Faucher, Hoeing, McCaughan
13th - Cronin, Munoz, Maldonado, Simpson

40+ innings from the above in March/April until Garrett and Cabrera are both back. Team effort here. Hoeing may get a real chunk of that as those bold guys shouldn't be throwing much IMO. I can see Hoeing getting two 2 inning appearances a week for 3-5 weeks. That'll be fine assuming Soriano is on that same throw schedule.

Maybe they are forced to elevate Meyer here too for a one-off spot appearance to not really add to his service time but get a 1 day appearance and do that twice 16 days apart. Get 6+ innings out of him for "2" games and "2" service days over 16 calendar days which still gets them to early July to deflect the year for him. Fish16 would hate this, but this is likely a thing for them and he could help with better innings for 2 true spot start/appearances.

But if we're missing say 8 Garret/Cabrera starts to open, is it the end of the world if those say 40 innings are: Max 6, Hoeing 16, Cronin 7, Munoz 6, and throwing Soriano an extra 5 innings? Because that's how it would practically shake out IMO.

[fish16]

Max Meyer to aaa. Service time games they can play off as him knocking off the rust

[Namaste]

lou called it

[fish16]

Opening day rotation will likely be Luzardo, Eury, Cabrera (if built up enough), Puk, Rogers/Weathers (likely Rogers), with Weathers being 6th man if Cabrera isnt ready. The interesting thing will be what they do with no other injuries when Garrett comes back. Regardless, that is a hell of a lot of talent in a rotation even without Sandy, Garrett, and maybe Cabrera as well.

[Nick]

So, at this point the opening day rotation is almost certainly: Luzardo, Eury, Rogers, Puk, Weathers. That's going to be a lot of innings for Hoeing for sure. I mentioned earlier, if you want to play service time games with Meyer this season fine, because I think his innings will be limited, and I'd like to save those limited innings for high pressure August and September innings, but if one of those 5 guys goes down and Cabrera and Garrett aren't ready, he's going to need to be up here. Bullpen games are not acceptable if he's healthy and in AAA. This is why we need to sign another veteran arm, sign a veteran arm, then by all means play service time games with Max.

[fish16]

So, at this point the opening day rotation is almost certainly: Luzardo, Eury, Rogers, Puk, Weathers. That's going to be a lot of innings for Hoeing for sure. I mentioned earlier, if you want to play service time games with Meyer this season fine, because I think his innings will be limited, and I'd like to save those limited innings for high pressure August and September innings, but if one of those 5 guys goes down and Cabrera and Garrett aren't ready, he's going to need to be up here. Bullpen games are not acceptable if he's healthy and in AAA. This is why we need to sign another veteran arm, sign a veteran arm, then by all means play service time games with Max.

What do you do if/when garrett come back. It means one of Rogers/Puk is out of the rotation, maybe both if weathers looks as good as he looks in spring. good problem to have, and these things usually work themselves out, but i'd be very interested to see what happens there.

[lou]

lou called it

I can't take any credit for stating the obvious here. Just like last year, I get no credit for saying this is going to happen with Eury despite everyone freaking out. Teams just do this. It's a thing.

(And they are going to do it with Edwards also who needs to stay down 52+ days for a year of control.)

[Nick]

What do you do if/when garrett come back. It means one of Rogers/Puk is out of the rotation, maybe both if weathers looks as good as he looks in spring. good problem to have, and these things usually work themselves out, but i'd be very interested to see what happens there.

They go to the pen and give us 5-7 innings out of the pen every week. Guys like Eury, Cabrera. They don't go deep into games, who knows how deep Puk will get you into games. You will need guys that can get you from the 5th to 7th, or 6th to the 8th inning. Starters are going to have to pitch out of the pen to make this season work, it's just the way it is.

[lou]

What do you do if/when garrett come back. It means one of Rogers/Puk is out of the rotation, maybe both if weathers looks as good as he looks in spring. good problem to have, and these things usually work themselves out, but i'd be very interested to see what happens there.

I've typed this 20 times this offseason. These guys are going to max out their innings unless they are on pitch/innings limits, and the Rays routinely would let guys throw 2-4+ innings on schedules. They even did this with McClanahan to build him up.

It's a new 2-3 IP bulk reliever reality coming with the core healthy rotation:

Luzardo (6+ average)... over 30+ starts
Eury (5+ average)... over 28 starts (135-140 IP)
Garrett (5+ average) ... over 28 starts (140-150 IP)
Cabrera (5+ average) ... over 28 starts (140-150 IP) <--- I am sold on a breakout here BTW if healthy
TBD

The cream will rise from Weathers, Puk, Rogers, Soriano, and Max. I'm going with Weathers because he can throw the most innings which they objectively need


Which gets us quickly to this once Max arrives. Mix and match them as you prefer also but I'm going with a R/L combo.

Luzardo (6+ average)
Eury (5+ average) + Puk 3+ innings
Garrett (5+ average) + Max 2+ innings
Cabrera (5+ average) + Rogers 3+ innings
Weathers (4-5+ average) + Soriano 2+ innings

You're just getting killed with SP1-4 there and these guys are on set schedules so if Eury skips a start once a month (likely), Puk is stretched to throw 4+ that day already and then bookend that by telling Max the next day he's getting 3+ innings so the bullpen can be used more the day before to help Puk, etc. This can be mapped out easily on the fly with availability. The Rays were amazing at this. It's going to happen here in some permutation for sure where all of a sudden Puk has 32 appearances for 110 innings on the year and does it matter how he got there ultimately as a SP or RP? Same with Rogers, but maybe he's upwards of 130 and he captures a few early season starts and a Luzardo off day in August to get a few extra ones, etc. Of course injuries play a part here but that's part of the constant map out here that will evolve as it goes.

I'm with Nick, they should up this floor with a veteran arm, but all of these are good problems and what's the big deal if we have SP averaging 4.2 innings (Garrett, Cabrera, Eury) if the first guy out the pen is throwing 3.1 innings (Puk, Rogers, Weathers). That's 8 innings using 2 pitchers and could easily happen here in some form (and Max/Soriano are 2 IP relievers all year on top). Maybe they just do two combo jobs and not 4 like above, but you get it. This will all work out. There are plenty of innings for everyone to eat what they should here.

[lou]

They go to the pen and give us 5-7 innings out of the pen every week. Guys like Eury, Cabrera. They don't go deep into games, who knows how deep Puk will get you into games. You will need guys that can get you from the 5th to 7th, or 6th to the 8th inning. Starters are going to have to pitch out of the pen to make this season work, it's just the way it is.

Exactly. Let Luzardo rip, and then aim to get into the 8th with two guys every other game. And I do mean every other game.

They are morons if at minimum they don't make two SP animals of say Eury/Puk and Cabrera/Rogers. Those are just perfect for all of their innings and mess up R/L stacked lineups for the other team. I bet you're getting into the 8th/9th inning 90% of their games. It becomes a huge bullpen saver too which is a major benefit.

I do like Max after Garrett too when he is ready as it'll look like he's throwing 110mph after Brax.

[Nick]

Exactly. Let Luzardo rip, and then aim to get into the 8th with two guys every other game. And I do mean every other game.

They are morons if at minimum they don't make two SP animals of say Eury/Puk and Cabrera/Rogers. Those are just perfect for all of their innings and mess up R/L stacked lineups for the other team. I bet you're getting into the 8th/9th inning 90% of their games. It becomes a huge bullpen saver too which is a major benefit.

I do like Max after Garrett too when he is ready as it'll look like he's throwing 110mph after Brax.

I question the chances they actually do it, though. We've been talking about them doing this for years and it's never happened.

[fish16]

i think we are going to look back on the nick gordon pick up as an absolute steal in a few months. I think Betancourt will be a decent addition as well. He has a cannon and we were absolutely destroyed in the run game last year.