2023-2024 Offseason Thread

[fish16]

im interested to see what rays guys Bendix ends up inevitably bringing over here from their organization. Obviously he knows their system and they always have a 40 man roster crunch, so id bet we get some movement there. Manuel Margot is on the block, but he doesnt really make sense. Decent enough player, good defensively, but another guy who hits lefties for his career much better than righties.

Shawn armstrong sucked for us 3 years ago but went there and put up 2 dominant years. Righty bullpen arm which we need, and he is arbitration eligible so makes sense they would move on when his value is high.

Edit- I'm backwards on margot, we need outfielders who can hit lefties. He makes a ton of sense, as does old friend harold ramirez. margot probably more though with his CF defense as well. His fangraphs says he defense has fallen off the last 2 years though so who knows. If anyone knows what he has left its bendix

[lou]

im interested to see what rays guys Bendix ends up inevitably bringing over here from their organization. Obviously he knows their system and they always have a 40 man roster crunch, so id bet we get some movement there. Manuel Margot is on the block, but he doesnt really make sense. Decent enough player, good defensively, but another guy who hits lefties for his career much better than righties.

Shawn armstrong sucked for us 3 years ago but went there and put up 2 dominant years. Righty bullpen arm which we need, and he is arbitration eligible so makes sense they would move on when his value is high.

I’m confused - an OF who can hit LHP is exactly what they need with Jazz and Sanchez around? Margot makes complete sense on paper. I’m not sure why you trade for him with his salary ($10) when you can get similar players (M. Taylor, Bader) in FA maybe. But if they sign elsewhere he makes sense if we’re viewing this as a salary dump. Or maybe you mean that they just need a total starting OF and not more of a platoon type. I do love the idea of grabbing excess 40 man guys off Tampa though in this kind of deal similar to what they did with Edwards.

Rays payroll is $118m going into next year which blows away their previous high ($83m in 22). Glasnow ($25m), Margot ($10m + $2m buyout), old friend H. Ramirez ($4m arb projection), and I agree maybe Armstrong ($1.75m arb projection) seem like a foursome they can move and get below $80m with this….

____, Pinto
Yandy
Lowe, Brujan/Aranda
Franco(?), Walls
Paredas, Caminero
Azorena
Siri
Lowe, Raley
(replace Wander with Mead if he did do it. Caminero can play some SS here)

Eflin, Bradley, Civale, Littel, _____*
Fairbanks, Poche, Adam, Kelly, Kitteridge, Lopez, normal assortment of guys they conjure up from nothing

*Baz coming back early, and Springs/Rasmussen post ASB. Their top pitching prospect FV45+ Montgomery in AAA. So big time help coming. Sucks for them McClanahan is hurt.

So basically, they need to trade for a catcher too and could use a starting pitcher to bridge to the injuries/help youth.

What about

Rogers and a FV40 years from 40 man eligibility
B. Lowe, Margot, Armstrong

That lowers their payroll to low/mid $70s as Lowe is off the books needing just a catcher. A healthy Rogers is perfect for them.

Marlins trotting this out for $103m or so

____, Fortes
Arraez, Bell
B. Lowe, Edwards
Berti, Amaya
Burger
DLC
Jazz, Margot
Sanchez

Luzardo, Eury, Garrett, Cabrera, ___, Weathers
Armstrong, Chargois, Brazoban
Scott, Puk, Nardi, Okert
(with Max and Bender coming)

Doesnt solve SS long term and they desperately need a catcher and SP, but Lowe, Armstrong, and Margot had a 4.5 WAR combined last year and Lowe signed for 2 more seasons. I think you sign a SP to bridge to Max and Sandy’s return, punt on catcher with the best Rule V there is and pray on him and Banfield and Fortes, and that team has a chance. Lowe is really good. I think they can get to the deadline with this and reassess. Maybe I’m wrong and Max is up day 1 or May 1 too.


Edit - It is a salary dump of Margot and clearing off Lowe here and assumes Rogers is healthy who is very valuable with 3 years of control and extremely low arb numbers coming due to injuries. He’s gotta check out health wise of course for any of this to work

[lou]

There’s no way you can save face on trading Luzardo and Scott after a playoff birth. I don’t care if there’s a Sandy excuse. Not that it would be a terrible decision, but it’s not happening.

When have they ever saved face?

I’m just saying here - I hope they don’t tread water as I think we al agree they need some bold moves to win 84 again

[Nick]

When have they ever saved face?

I’m just saying here - I hope they don’t tread water as I think we al agree they need some bold moves to win 84 again

Yeah if they were concerned about saving face they wouldn't have let go of the only female GM in pro sports ever, the year she against all odds got them to the playoffs.

[fish16]

id bet we see a minor fringe deal or 2 from another teams 40 man overflow, most notably the rays. We have some fat we can trim from the 40 man. Okert, Groshans, Stallings will get non tendered, Sixto. And we already have 5 open spots from my count anyways, though we will add Maldonado and Banfield, and maybe VM JR and Nunez.

[lou]

id bet we see a minor fringe deal or 2 from another teams 40 man overflow, most notably the rays. We have some fat we can trim from the 40 man. Okert, Groshans, Stallings will get non tendered, Sixto. And we already have 5 open spots from my count anyways, though we will add Maldonado and Banfield, and maybe VM JR and Nunez.

I think Banfield, Johnston, Nasim, Mesa Jr., and Maldonado will get added for sure. Fitterer and McCambley could be maybes. One interesting one may be Sanoja. He’s barely in A+ but rising up prospect lists and seems like someone KC or some other terrible team may just try to hide for a year before optioning back. Ian Lewis is also eligible but he’s not even in A+ so seems a little safer.

Big picture, I think they have at least 5-8 spots open right now so they can do a lot. I’d quib I don’t think Okert is a non-tender. He could probably get traded to a team needing a 2nd/3rd lefty pretty easily. He’s cheap with some control and strikes out people.

[sports24/7]

When have they ever saved face?

I’m just saying here - I hope they don’t tread water as I think we al agree they need some bold moves to win 84 again

Moves like Garcia, Segura, Soler were save face moves. They knew they had to spend “some” money, and did. They understand it’s a delicate balance with the fan base. They cannot sell off good players unless they’re in a position where they have to.

As for Ng, that was her decision. They tried to make it work, and made the right baseball decision. She didn’t like it and left. I’m sure they didn’t love the optics, but they also understood they had to move forward the right way when it comes to development if they’re ever going to succeed with a low budget.

[Nick]

Moves like Garcia, Segura, Soler were save face moves. They knew they had to spend “some” money, and did. They understand it’s a delicate balance with the fan base. They cannot sell off good players unless they’re in a position where they have to.

As for Ng, that was her decision. They tried to make it work, and made the right baseball decision. She didn’t like it and left. I’m sure they didn’t love the optics, but they also understood they had to move forward the right way when it comes to development if they’re ever going to succeed with a low budget.

They wanted to reward her playoff season by basically demoting her and giving her someone to answer to. No one is going to accept that scenario after the success they had.

[Namaste]

They wanted to reward her playoff season by basically demoting her and giving her someone to answer to. No one is going to accept that scenario after the success they had.

I’m not saying you’re wrong but the “success” she had here is very debatable. If not for a near historic record in one run games in 2023, more people would be talking about her failures than her successes

[Nick]

I’m not saying you’re wrong but the “success” she had here is very debatable. If not for a near historic record in one run games in 2023, more people would be talking about her failures than her successes

To me the jury was still out on Kim, but you can't argue that she didn't finish strong. The Bell and Burger trades were home runs. Development needed to improve absolutely, but was she ever really working with her own people? D.J. Svihlik had been with us since 2017, for example.

[rmc523]

To me the jury was still out on Kim, but you can't argue that she didn't finish strong. The Bell and Burger trades were home runs. Development needed to improve absolutely, but was she ever really working with her own people? D.J. Svihlik had been with us since 2017, for example.

I think she at least earned an extension and the right to try to revamp problem areas on her own, not to bring someone in above her.

That said, I think she also had her own issues that didn't seem to get better (in-season roster moves were particularly bad/slow), so I'm also not devastated to see her go.

[lou]

Moves like Garcia, Segura, Soler were save face moves. They knew they had to spend “some” money, and did. They understand it’s a delicate balance with the fan base. They cannot sell off good players unless they’re in a position where they have to.

As for Ng, that was her decision. They tried to make it work, and made the right baseball decision. She didn’t like it and left. I’m sure they didn’t love the optics, but they also understood they had to move forward the right way when it comes to development if they’re ever going to succeed with a low budget.

Soler probably, but Garcia was an earlier FA period signing from what I remember and Segura seemed like an intentional wait out the market approach. Those two were part of a plan not a save face move to me. Soler was the last “big” FA standing with a poor position fit so that made little sense and were forced into that one to me.

I’m a winning cures all kind of guy. Past Oakland and the Rays would trade big names all the time but they earned trust because they always compete. The Marlins should unapologetically make baseball moves because the end result is they must earn that trust by winning. So it never matters if you trade a guy because you’ve developed that trust. They hired this guy to be the Rays - so be the Rays. The Rays are going to move Glasnow and likely Lowe/Paredas/Yandy to lower salary and not miss a beat this offseason. That’s basically the equivalent of Luzardo and Scott which would not just net the Marlins a fortune in trades but also maybe $10m to spend if they got club controlled guys only back. I’m not advocating that just an example. On an organizational level, they should just immediately operate like that and not worry about bad press. Beat your chest, say you made the playoffs, and say we’re going to do it again with these new guys who we also control for 15 more years combined than Luzardo and Scott. The trick is, don’t be wrong and get killed. And again, that’s why this guy was hired. If Bruce won’t spend, something big like Luzardo and Scott to Balt or LAD or Tex or STL for all the goodies will need to happen. Or it’s just treading water to your own death. If Sandy was healthy totally different ball game here, but this is what they have to work with IMO.

[sports24/7]

They wanted to reward her playoff season by basically demoting her and giving her someone to answer to. No one is going to accept that scenario after the success they had.

The way Mish described it was that she wasn’t being demoted. She would have still had a similar day to day, but there would have been someone overseeing the entire operation and running the rest of it. She also reportedly would not get rid of Svihlik, so he was “one of her people”.

I think she earned a chance to continue, as the Bell and Burger trades were great. But that doesn’t mean she did a great job overall. She had some stinkers, failed to address some key needs in the offseason, and couldn’t add or develop bats in the minors. Because of that, I don’t think they should have done everything they could to keep her, and I certainly don’t think there was anything wrong with the plan to hire someone above her. If I were betting on it, I’d wager history ends up suggesting she was more lucky than good this year, but I guess we’ll see.

[sports24/7]

Soler probably, but Garcia was an earlier FA period signing from what I remember and Segura seemed like an intentional wait out the market approach. Those two were part of a plan not a save face move to me. Soler was the last “big” FA standing with a poor position fit so that made little sense and were forced into that one to me.

I’m a winning cures all kind of guy. Past Oakland and the Rays would trade big names all the time but they earned trust because they always compete. The Marlins should unapologetically make baseball moves because the end result is they must earn that trust by winning. So it never matters if you trade a guy because you’ve developed that trust. They hired this guy to be the Rays - so be the Rays. The Rays are going to move Glasnow and likely Lowe/Paredas/Yandy to lower salary and not miss a beat this offseason. That’s basically the equivalent of Luzardo and Scott which would not just net the Marlins a fortune in trades but also maybe $10m to spend if they got club controlled guys only back. I’m not advocating that just an example. On an organizational level, they should just immediately operate like that and not worry about bad press. Beat your chest, say you made the playoffs, and say we’re going to do it again with these new guys who we also control for 15 more years combined than Luzardo and Scott. The trick is, don’t be wrong and get killed. And again, that’s why this guy was hired. If Bruce won’t spend, something big like Luzardo and Scott to Balt or LAD or Tex or STL for all the goodies will need to happen. Or it’s just treading water to your own death. If Sandy was healthy totally different ball game here, but this is what they have to work with IMO.

I don’t think anyone realistically thought those FA moves would put them over the top. Of course they thought those guys would help, but I would guess deep down those moves were made more because they felt they had to do something more than the notion that they would truly make a big impact.

Again, I’m not saying they shouldn’t make a move like that, but they won’t. Winning will cure all, but the odds will always be stacked against them winning when they don’t spend. But they’ll destroy all the goodwill they bought last season if they trade two of their best players for prospects. They just can’t do that unless it also comes with moderate to big money moves in FA.

[Namaste]

Skip won Manager of the Year