2023-2024 Offseason Thread

[Lee Stone]

Yep. I can’t get behind that take now either.

I don’t blame Bruce for scorching earth the payroll the first few years, and while some of these deals may backfire, there is no way you can tell me Correa, Turner, Xander, Swanson, or Nimmo shouldn’t be on this team on top of everything else. It’s the Rangers situation - sign Seager and Semien a year early and look what happens to team culture. They could have signed Swanson as the cheapest SS of the four (and not signed Segura) and only have been 22nd in payroll last year. Swanson had a 4.9 WAR season last year and has a huge floor with the defense. Maybe the Phillies series is a home one if they had just him.

So this now goes to this year, will he spend $110-120m coming off a miracle playoff appearance? Team payroll is probably at $86m and they need a C, SS, OF, and SP. This should be very doable even with only having a farm to handle 1-2 big trades. I think a $140m Marlins team would be scary AF and if he were to go for it for a 4 year window. Thats not a lot to ask for IMO after a 5+ year cycle of doing not much.

I'm not thinking that the Marlins have a farm to pull off even one significant deal.

[rmc523]

Yep. I can’t get behind that take now either.

I don’t blame Bruce for scorching earth the payroll the first few years, and while some of these deals may backfire, there is no way you can tell me Correa, Turner, Xander, Swanson, or Nimmo shouldn’t be on this team on top of everything else. It’s the Rangers situation - sign Seager and Semien a year early and look what happens to team culture. They could have signed Swanson as the cheapest SS of the four (and not signed Segura) and only have been 22nd in payroll last year. Swanson had a 4.9 WAR season last year and has a huge floor with the defense. Maybe the Phillies series is a home one if they had just him.

So this now goes to this year, will he spend $110-120m coming off a miracle playoff appearance? Team payroll is probably at $86m and they need a C, SS, OF, and SP. This should be very doable even with only having a farm to handle 1-2 big trades. I think a $140m Marlins team would be scary AF and if he were to go for it for a 4 year window. Thats not a lot to ask for IMO after a 5+ year cycle of doing not much.

I'm just not hopeful this scenario happens.

And also not hopeful the new guy will be able to do a ton in year 1.

[lou]

I'm just not hopeful this scenario happens.

And also not hopeful the new guy will be able to do a ton in year 1.

I don’t disagree. “Sandy is hurt” is going to be the excuse this year 100%, with a hat tip to “Cabrera, Eury, Rogers, and Weathers max out 140 IP at MLB level” with a further footnote of “Max isn’t fully healthy.” They’ll add Arraez/Jazz/Luzardo got hurt mid-season when one of them inevitably goes down. Rinse repeat.

[rmc523]

I don’t disagree. “Sandy is hurt” is going to be the excuse this year 100%, with a hat tip to “Cabrera, Eury, Rogers, and Weathers max out 140 IP at MLB level” with a further footnote of “Max isn’t fully healthy.” They’ll add Arraez/Jazz/Luzardo got hurt mid-season when one of them inevitably goes down. Rinse repeat.

Yeah, which, to be fair are all valid points/restrictions, so a step back for this coming year from our postseason appearance is likely - I just hope Peter can actually finally address some of the holes on the team that have gone unaddressed for 3+ years now, which will put us in a stronger position both for this season ('24) and next season ('25) when Sandy is back. How Kim let glaring holes be ignored for years, I'll never understand.

[rmc523]

Bendix had an introductory press conference

I heard part of the short conference on the radio - basically the typical stuff - they're excited about things to come, he has to evaluate what's here, excited Arraez is open to an extension, etc. etc.

[lou]

I'm not thinking that the Marlins have a farm to pull off even one significant deal.

They’d be able to pull off a big one with Noble or White, or perhaps Cappe or Fulton, and also be able to potentially move Garrett, Cabrera, or Rogers and sign a FA + trust Max, Weathers, Monteverde and Fulton to be able to throw some innings. As said many times, their club control years at MLB level are vast so if they can secure these last 2-4 long term guys the idea of farm depth is whatever as you have your starting position core and rotation relatively set absent a one year stop gap bat here and there. Cough extend Arraez, Luzardo, and Jazz

[lou]

Yeah, which, to be fair are all valid points/restrictions, so a step back for this coming year from our postseason appearance is likely - I just hope Peter can actually finally address some of the holes on the team that have gone unaddressed for 3+ years now, which will put us in a stronger position both for this season ('24) and next season ('25) when Sandy is back. How Kim let glaring holes be ignored for years, I'll never understand.

If they are going to punt a year, Lee’s idea of trading Sandy turns into trading Luzardo and Scott to the Orioles and get 4
premium bat prospects pretty quickly IMO.

[Lee Stone]

If they are going to punt a year, Lee’s idea of trading Sandy turns into trading Luzardo and Scott to the Orioles and get 4
premium bat prospects pretty quickly IMO.

I'd support a deal involving Luzardo, Scott and even Garrett if the team could get a really strong return of young, controllable, everyday players.

[rmc523]

If they are going to punt a year, Lee’s idea of trading Sandy turns into trading Luzardo and Scott to the Orioles and get 4
premium bat prospects pretty quickly IMO.

Let me clarify - I don't think they're going to purposely do worse this year - I think it's just going to be a reality that we likely don't make the playoffs without Sandy (and some of the other limitations mentioned above), unless they surprise us and are able to make several different moves and/or spend to address a variety of issues this offseason.

[lou]

I'd support a deal involving Luzardo, Scott and even Garrett if the team could get a really strong return of young, controllable, everyday players.

It’s Luzardo and Scott if you want to go nuts - how about Westburg, Ortiz, Basallo, and one of the secondary OF (Haskin?). Take McCann’s salary in that deal too and Hicks too who becomes the Marlins 4th OF who can play against lefties.

Once they dump Santander, this costs about $45m in 2024. I kid you not - $45m

Rustchman, _____
Mountcastle, O’Hearn
Holliday (I think he’s up opening day)
Gunnar, Mateo
Mayo (him too), Urias
Hays, Kierstad (him three)
Mullins
Cowser (and four)

Luzardo, Grayson, Bradish, _____, Means, Kremer
Scott, Cano, Columbe, C. Perez, Baker, and wide assortment of other pen arms + guy for Santander

They could add Nola/Snell/Montgomery/Yamamoto/Eduardo, Hader, and a suitable backup catcher who will rarely play and be well under $90m. And even better if they signed say Garver and Urshela on 1-2 year deals and kicked one of those kid bats back to AAA for a bit (where they also have Norby in AAA among other OF like Beavers so the whole team is injury proofed with some real upside bats coming on top of this).

Big picture, Baltimore can go all out for a young and cheap SP on a trade and sign an amazing FA one. If the Marlins aren’t going to extend Luzardo and Scott, it is certainly an idea as they can get Baltimore 250 amazing innings with them and target Sandy, Eury, Cabrera, Garrett, and Rogers/Meyer when healthy pretty quickly.

It’s frankly being bold + spending “some” money which is something I doubt an incoming FO/Brucd will do. Which blows my mind as just look across town at the Panthers and they immediately became amazing with a bold new FO.

[lou]

Let me clarify - I don't think they're going to purposely do worse this year - I think it's just going to be a reality that we likely don't make the playoffs without Sandy (and some of the other limitations mentioned above), unless they surprise us and are able to make several different moves and/or spend to address a variety of issues this offseason.

Right - and this goes back to the constant comment we all usually agree with, treading water is the worst decision. This team needs a lot but they’ll do nothing franchise changing.

[rmc523]

Right - and this goes back to the constant comment we all usually agree with, treading water is the worst decision. This team needs a lot but they’ll do nothing franchise changing.

BUT....maybe if we can "tread water" pitching wise, while addressing multiple offensive holes, that'll set us up well for '25.

[lou]

BUT....maybe if we can "tread water" pitching wise, while addressing multiple offensive holes, that'll set us up well for '25.

I am all for selecting Dan Uggla in the Rule V, trading for Cody Ross via a DFA for $1, and having Berry or Johnston turn into Diet Willingham next year, but this just goes back to spending money to fill spots. Maybe new FO can pull multiple Sanchez’s and Burger’s out of their ass for secondary pitching.

[sports24/7]

There’s no way you can save face on trading Luzardo and Scott after a playoff birth. I don’t care if there’s a Sandy excuse. Not that it would be a terrible decision, but it’s not happening.

[rmc523]

There’s no way you can save face on trading Luzardo and Scott after a playoff birth. I don’t care if there’s a Sandy excuse. Not that it would be a terrible decision, but it’s not happening.

I agree.

You'd have to somehow get multiple major league bats back, and turn around and sign top FA pitching (the expensive kind) to replace them.