2022-2023 Offseason Thread

[lou]

correct. And im saying its revisionist history because if you go look at the actual situation, it made actual sense to keep him down because he's coming off an oblique injury and there is no role in the rotation for him at that time. you can go look back at the thread from last year, there is nothing lou said about garrett being sent down for service time reasons until after the fact. Granted, in lous defense, were not analyzing call ups and downs in september for a team 30 games out of the playoff chase. But there also the fact that garrett actually showed something last year and in a lost year, if that is what they are doing, it makes sense to get the extra year when there is not a spot in the rotation available. If Castano or Hernandez had a rotation spot at that point, the argument would be a lot stronger.

Groshans was truly terrible in the minors last year aside from 30 games in Jacksonville and is a fringe prospect at this point because he doesnt have the power.. To keep him down for service time reasons for a full month and a half over a guy like Garrett Hampson would be a completely different situation entirely. Worrying about 6 years from now for a fringe prospect in a year you are trying to win would be truly stupid.

Garrett was 100% service time manipulation in September and you can keep dancing around it, but guys don't unintentionally end up with .168 days of service time (a number shared with Cabrera!) and other organizations do this (AJ Puk avoiding being a super 2 by 4 days). This is the nature of the beast of current CBA. Also you are way off on Groshans being "truly terrible" as a 22 year old in AAA. He is 22. We don't know anything about him. He hits a few more doubles and gets his 2022 slash with a .400+ slugging and we'll consider him the longterm 3B starter pretty quickly.

[fish16]

I mean, the dude also hasn't pitched in 2 years.

Ya, sixto wont be service time manipulation. Doing that for a guy who hasnt pitched in 2 years would also be stupid. It will work out that way though, he's not close to being ready, if he ever becomes ready to pitch in the bigs again. If you look at this bullpens, he isnt throwing anywhere near as hard as he can. I think he was clocked at like 85-88 recently. Playing service time games with a guy like him would also be overthinking it. Theres a better chance he never pitches again at the big league level than their is him being some asset they need to keep under control 7 years from now.

[fish16]

Garrett was 100% service time manipulation in September and you can keep dancing around it, but guys don't unintentionally end up with .168 days of service time (a number shared with Cabrera!) and other organizations do this (AJ Puk avoiding being a super 2 by 4 days). This is the nature of the beast of current CBA. Also you are way off on Groshans being "truly terrible" as a 22 year old in AAA. He is 22. We don't know anything about him. He hits a few more doubles and gets his 2022 slash with a .400+ slugging and we'll consider him the longterm 3B starter pretty quickly.

we shall find out in 3 weeks when they determine the opening day roster. I think the potential avenue they go if they are looking at keeping him down for 39 days is a late waiver claim at the end of spring. guys become available all the time at the end of spring.

Same thing with that last bullpen spot. I think that will end up being a DFA guy or we swap someone for the last bullpen arm. We did it last year with nance, i could see something similar because the guys in position for that last spot have been fairly terrible.

[fish16]

cabrera on the hill today. close to an opening day lineup, just Arraez getting a day off for hampson at 2b, Austin allen at C, and berti at 3b instead of segura. Interestingly enough, Garcia is in LF today Sanchez RF, and Soler is at DH.

I wonder if Stallings has a minor injury or they are just keeping him fresh. He has played very little. only 8 ab's and 4 games. Austin allen has 9 ab's coming into today and fortes 11.

[rmc523]

Ya, sixto wont be service time manipulation. Doing that for a guy who hasnt pitched in 2 years would also be stupid. It will work out that way though, he's not close to being ready, if he ever becomes ready to pitch in the bigs again. If you look at this bullpens, he isnt throwing anywhere near as hard as he can. I think he was clocked at like 85-88 recently. Playing service time games with a guy like him would also be overthinking it. Theres a better chance he never pitches again at the big league level than their is him being some asset they need to keep under control 7 years from now.

While we may get extra control over him, I think gaining extra service time with him will be a result of his needing additional rehab/rebuilding strength, not solely to gain extra service time.

[fish16]

While we may get extra control over him, I think gaining extra service time with him will be a result of his needing additional rehab/rebuilding strength, not solely to gain extra service time.

exactly. It will work out in our favor, but mostly because he doesnt seem close to ready. the good news is he seems like he's matured and is not letting himself go. It sucks he's not ready, but at least losing 50 pounds seems like he actually gives a shit. The videos of the bullpen sessions however indicate he's at least a few months off. We have more than enough pitching long term without him, but if he can come back anywhere close to what he was expected to be, that's an enormous bonus for a guy who we all pretty much wrote off.

[rmc523]

exactly. It will work out in our favor, but mostly because he doesnt seem close to ready. the good news is he seems like he's matured and is not letting himself go. It sucks he's not ready, but at least losing 50 pounds seems like he actually gives a shit. The videos of the bullpen sessions however indicate he's at least a few months off. We have more than enough pitching long term without him, but if he can come back anywhere close to what he was expected to be, that's an enormous bonus for a guy who we all pretty much wrote off.

I'm still not counting on him for anything anytime soon......really for the season with how things have gone with his history.

[fish16]

I'm still not counting on him for anything anytime soon......really for the season with how things have gone with his history.

that's probably a safe assumption. The most i think we could hope for is a contribution as a bullpen arm at some point late in the year with the hopes of then potentially building him back as a starter in future years. Supposedly though they are trying to build him back as a starter so it will be interesting to see what, if anything, he gives us this year. The good news is we have 6 quality starting options already so we're not relying on him to take the spot of a hernandez or Castano like we might have been in previous years.

[rmc523]

that's probably a safe assumption. The most i think we could hope for is a contribution as a bullpen arm at some point late in the year with the hopes of then potentially building him back as a starter in future years. Supposedly though they are trying to build him back as a starter so it will be interesting to see what, if anything, he gives us this year. The good news is we have 6 quality starting options already so we're not relying on him to take the spot of a hernandez or Castano like we might have been in previous years.

I'd also put him in the bullpen.

[fish16]

I'd also put him in the bullpen.

ideal situations never happen with this franchise, but the working plan should be hopefully we stay in some form of contention, he gets healthy mid season and he's the addition to our bullpen so we dont have to trade a prospect for a bullpen upgrade, and then august/september eury runs into an innings limit and comes up and gives us a boost out of the bullpen to end the year.

Again, this will almost never come to fruition, but in my opinion that should be the plan. They improved the bullpen but they could still use another guy or 2 with dynamic stuff and that would be a hell of a combo to add towards the end of the year for a boost.

[lou]

While we may get extra control over him, I think gaining extra service time with him will be a result of his needing additional rehab/rebuilding strength, not solely to gain extra service time.

I don't disagree with this, however let's say everything goes great with him next 4+ months and he looks about ready July 10th with his arm built up for 1-2 IP reliever innings. There is a -0- percent chance they call him up when they can get a year of service time versus 3 more weeks in the minors. That has always been the point here. And I don't know why I am getting pushback when they literally do this to an extreme. The Garrett situation is FUCKED UP with that straight gangster send down when he was healthy. An excuse they wanted to keep a 5 man rotation is LAME based on what was being throw out of the bullpen and how all arms were hurt all year. That guy earned every active day on the roster with what he did last year and he should have 1.006 days right now. Great for the Marlins/us, sad for Garrett. Optimistically, the Marlins will give him some better than minimum tenders for 2023/2024 and not mess with him in Super2 arbitration. We'll see.

[lou]

ideal situations never happen with this franchise, but the working plan should be hopefully we stay in some form of contention, he gets healthy mid season and he's the addition to our bullpen so we dont have to trade a prospect for a bullpen upgrade, and then august/september eury runs into an innings limit and comes up and gives us a boost out of the bullpen to end the year.

Again, this will almost never come to fruition, but in my opinion that should be the plan. They improved the bullpen but they could still use another guy or 2 with dynamic stuff and that would be a hell of a combo to add towards the end of the year for a boost.

Yes - throw all the minor league starting pitchers in spurts. They can get their innings still at the MLB level if ready. It's what they should have done with Meyer out of the bullpen last April (I think he was ready in a reliever role).

We can dream of this August 1st for sure:

Sandy, Luzardo, Cueto, Rogers, Cabrera
Eury, Barnes/Floro, Floro/Chargois, Enright, Sixto
Garrett, Puk, Eder

One of Barnes/Floro/Chargois, Scott, and Okert became Bass, Pop, and Yimi 2023 to get some flyer guys.

Would be something.

Same question - where are the last 2 bats? Because all of this talk today is stupid and the real issue is why is Groshans even considered for a MLB spot when any real organization would have filled out its bench. He should be an injury call up only and in AAA the entire year packing on muscle in the weight room. Andrus and B. Anderson signed for under $4m. That kind of guy is missing, however maybe someone else's camp cut fixes this issue or Kim has a real banger in the works.

[fish16]

Yes - throw all the minor league starting pitchers in spurts. They can get their innings still at the MLB level if ready. It's what they should have done with Meyer out of the bullpen last April (I think he was ready in a reliever role).

We can dream of this August 1st for sure:

Sandy, Luzardo, Cueto, Rogers, Cabrera
Eury, Barnes/Floro, Floro/Chargois, Enright, Sixto
Garrett, Puk, Eder

One of Barnes/Floro/Chargois, Scott, and Okert became Bass, Pop, and Yimi 2023 to get some flyer guys.

Would be something.

Same question - where are the last 2 bats? Because all of this talk today is stupid and the real issue is why is Groshans even considered for a MLB spot when any real organization would have filled out its bench. He should be an injury call up only and in AAA the entire year packing on muscle in the weight room. Andrus and B. Anderson signed for under $4m. That kind of guy is missing, however maybe someone else's camp cut fixes this issue or Kim has a real banger in the works.

To me, at this point, the question is when does reynolds actually become available. It's fine to say go get a guy, and realistically it should have been correa, but now that it didnt happen, it's easy to say go get a guy, but who is that guy. Rosario aint available, it's really reynolds or bust at this point until someone else maybe becomes available at the deadline.

I think, like you said, there will be an addition of someone or maybe 2 guys at the end of camp added onto the roster. I think, or at least hope, it will be 1 more bullpen arm and hopefully a bench bat swings available.

[Lee Stone]

I'd go legs and glove over bat and let Nunez begin his major league career right now. His type of batting approach should play in the bigs (and he did smack one 107 mph from the left side the other day). Let's go with him over Wendle as starting SS and also play Berti in the OF. Defense and speed come to play every day.

[Nick]

I'd go legs and glove over bat and let Nunez begin his major league career right now. His type of batting approach should play in the bigs (and he did smack one 107 mph from the left side the other day). Let's go with him over Wendle as starting SS and also play Berti in the OF. Defense and speed come to play every day.

I like Nunez, but he hit .251 between AA and High-A last year. If he hits .150 at the big league level, his skills don't play. Nunez needs to show he can hit for average at AAA before he gets the call.