2022-2023 Offseason Thread

[Nick]

I don't hate any of the new changes so far, we'll see if that changes once the real games start. Still hate that extra innings rule, though. Placing runners just seems like fundamentally changing what baseball is to me.

[fish16]

It would be nice to have him as depth, especially with currently open 40 man space, but who cares as he's effectively a 13th man? They did manage to keep LeBlanc off the 40 man (and signed Hampson) and they got Amaya and Edwards so they have higher upside guys all around here. I'd be annoyed if they didn't have those 4 though. This also ignores Groshans.

Speaking of the 40 man, they also have Meyer, Bender, and Enright still on the 40 man, so they have room for 3 moves at any time. I suspect they are waiting for last guys to be released later in the spring as they can add LeBlanc, Hampson, and Hinojosa (all have options) whenever and don't need to do it now. It's too bad Smeltzer is OOO. I think he might be sneaky pretty OK but he'd have to be a permanent call up. This just gets me back to why did they keep Brazoban over Neidert or Poteet. Hopefully they know what they are doing there.

luke williams was terrible. Good riddance to him. For those last bench spots, i either want someone capable of producing in limited opportunities, or a young guy like an Amaya or Groshans who, at least if they struggle, there is a hope for potential in the future.

What they did with the bullpen was weird, but Poteet was going to be out the whole year, and it was clear they just didnt view neidert as a reliever option. Given how they handled him, they liked him as a starter only and he just wasnt great there. There are certain profiles of guys who can transition to the bullpen after being a starter, but neidert didnt really fit that profile because he didnt throw very hard. It's the exact concern i have with braxton garrett. The typical guys who succeed out of the pen after being a starter are guys whose velocity can tick up in a shorter window out of the pen. guys like Miller, Brad Hand, Wade Davis, and any number of other guys who have made that transition. Neidert didnt fit that profile even though i would have at least tried, and im not sure how Garrett translates out of the pen either other than as a long reliever. I'll be interested to see how they handle him.

Mish seems to think he will be out of the pen technically, but get starts relatively often to spell the young guys for a turn in the rotation every once and a while to keep innings off of Luzardo, Cabrera, and maybe rogers.

[fish16]

I don't hate any of the new changes so far, we'll see if that changes once the real games start. Still hate that extra innings rule, though. Placing runners just seems like fundamentally changing what baseball is to me.

that's one of the few rules i dont love either. I get the idea, but a runner on 2nd no outs seems like an automatic run way too often. If they want to do runner on 1st, i can get behind that because 18 inning games when there are 162 games arent great, but runner on 2nd and no outs seems too easy, and a lot of games go to extra innings. They just feel like a crap shoot.

[fish16]

Meyer and Bender btw will obviously go on the 60 day so that will open up 2 spots. I dont believe enright will though, which would be good news for him as a person and his recovery. Supposedly his treatment only put him slightly behind the rest of the guys at the start of spring, so i think he opens on the regular IL (cant remember if its 7 or 10 days now) and comes back not too long into the season.

[lou]

Completely agree. I think Manfred is a terrible commissioner, but finally resisting the stupid tradition arguments and making the changes he's made recently, between essentially getting rid of the LOOGY with the 3 batter minimum rule, the intentional walk rule, and these changes, he's made not only the game better but the viewer experience better. Next up is robo umps and i will have nothing to complain about. I think that's next year. Just like this year, i think there will be up front complaints, but then people will get used to it, and games will stop being impacted by calls that every single viewer determines in seconds were wrong but the teams are just forced to live with.

I get why the game has shifted to focusing on home runs and being ok with strikeouts, but it's terrible for the game. The shift being gone will put an emphasis back on putting the ball in play, and while thats not "sexy," it's better from a viewer standpoint where there is more action. I said it yesterday, but i think it will increase offense and batting average. With last years rules and with how advanced the statistical analysis has gotten, it was so fucking hard to simply hit a single. You can say just hit it the other way, and to an extent that is true, but i thought it was bad for the game even if it was just a simple statistical analysis of where guys tended to hit the ball. I think the amount of singles this year are going to sky rocket and that's better for the game than nothing but home runs and strikeouts.

It's still going to be HR or bust, I wouldn't expect a large change. Maybe they should lower the mound if they want to do that.

[lou]

Meyer and Bender btw will obviously go on the 60 day so that will open up 2 spots. I dont believe enright will though, which would be good news for him as a person and his recovery. Supposedly his treatment only put him slightly behind the rest of the guys at the start of spring, so i think he opens on the regular IL (cant remember if its 7 or 10 days now) and comes back not too long into the season.

This is great news

[lou]

luke williams was terrible. Good riddance to him. For those last bench spots, i either want someone capable of producing in limited opportunities, or a young guy like an Amaya or Groshans who, at least if they struggle, there is a hope for potential in the future.

What they did with the bullpen was weird, but Poteet was going to be out the whole year, and it was clear they just didnt view neidert as a reliever option. Given how they handled him, they liked him as a starter only and he just wasnt great there. There are certain profiles of guys who can transition to the bullpen after being a starter, but neidert didnt really fit that profile because he didnt throw very hard. It's the exact concern i have with braxton garrett. The typical guys who succeed out of the pen after being a starter are guys whose velocity can tick up in a shorter window out of the pen. guys like Miller, Brad Hand, Wade Davis, and any number of other guys who have made that transition. Neidert didnt fit that profile even though i would have at least tried, and im not sure how Garrett translates out of the pen either other than as a long reliever. I'll be interested to see how they handle him.

Mish seems to think he will be out of the pen technically, but get starts relatively often to spell the young guys for a turn in the rotation every once and a while to keep innings off of Luzardo, Cabrera, and maybe rogers.

I think it's mild criticism they think 33 year old Brazoban has more value than 26 year old Neidert or Poteet. That says a lot, but I find that peculiar. I'd bet on Poteet and not worry about carrying Brazoban on the 40 man.

As for Garrett, he'd be a weapon out of the pen with the slider (https://www.pitcherlist.com/12-under...es-in-2022/).* The issue is, he should be used for 130+ innings not 70 so they need to figure out how to get him those. I think it's 32 appearances for 4 innings a pop, or maybe it's closer to 40+ appearances with 3+ IP a pop and he's effectively just going through the order once with a few more batters. I think they'll be able to manage this as Cabrera needs to be really babied in this way also and as we've discussed, if anyone gets hurt, they have everyone stretched out already for an instant replacement. Also, I hope Puk is more of a 90-100 IP guy also here over 45-50 appearances. Basically how the Rangers sort of used Brock Burke who is awesome (https://www.fangraphs.com/players/br...ats?position=P). Get these guys innings, they can handle it. Spread them out.


*And as a side note with that article, I hope Luzardo's changeup usage increases so we can project him for more innings longterm - becomes an instant extend with more changeup dependency if it doesn't eliminate the value of the arsenal. Add this to the list also of why I think Brubaker is a perfect 2nd player to get from the Pirates also if that deal for Reynolds ever happens.

[rmc523]

I happened across this concept for an M hat. Based on the old unis. And it pisses me off that they didn't just make this minor change. Especially since you can easily rearrange the old MARLINS font to make it say Miami.

Sometimes keeping it simple is the best way to go...

[rmc523]

What do you guys think of the rule changes so far? I really like the pitch clock, but i think they might eventually shift to 20 seconds instead of 15. 15 seems just a bit rushed to me. At the very least, i love the much faster pace of the game. the combination of the shift and the slow pace of play made baseball unwatchable because you could go 30 minutes of real time without a ball actually put in play. I like that the lack of the shift will lead to more base hits and the bigger bases will bring steals back into play a bit. In the past i get why baseball shifted to the all or nothing, home run or strikeout outcome style, but it was terrible from a fan experience. It will be an adjustment for sure, but there is no need for games to take 3-3.5 hours every single night, regardless of the score. the whole hitter stepping out of the box and adjusting his cup and batting gloves after every pitch was ridiculous.

Now if we can get robo umps in the next year we're really talking about baseball finally acting in their own best interest and not relying on the stupid "tradition" argument. I get umps are a lot better than they are given credit for and have gotten much better over the last 10 years, my argument has always been that if you have the technology to be perfect, it's stupid not to be. IF the technology isnt there, then by all means keep with normal umps, but its 2023, everyone at home can immediately determine whether a call was accurate or not, it's stupid that we still rely on middle aged men with cataracts to call balls and strikes.

I haven't watched any ST games, but I agree, it was always stupid for a guy that got in the box and didn't even move the bat to have to step out and redo his gloves every pitch.

I also feel like we'll see a time adjustment for postseason play.

[rmc523]

I don't hate any of the new changes so far, we'll see if that changes once the real games start. Still hate that extra innings rule, though. Placing runners just seems like fundamentally changing what baseball is to me.

I agree. I liked the proposal some have thrown out of continue with normal rules through 3 extra innings (1 time through the lineup), and THEN switch to the placed runner rule in the 13th if still tied after that.

that's one of the few rules i dont love either. I get the idea, but a runner on 2nd no outs seems like an automatic run way too often. If they want to do runner on 1st, i can get behind that because 18 inning games when there are 162 games arent great, but runner on 2nd and no outs seems too easy, and a lot of games go to extra innings. They just feel like a crap shoot.

I feel like a runner on first would end up resulting in a lot of immediate double plays, causing MORE game time.

[rmc523]

It's still going to be HR or bust, I wouldn't expect a large change. Maybe they should lower the mound if they want to do that.

Player approaches may stay the same ("I want home runs"), but the result of no extreme shifts will end up being more hits on balls put in play that aren't HRs.

[fish16]

Game tonight will supposedly be in mlb network for those who want to watch. I’m guessing it’s Cabrera tonight or rogers since luzardo and cueto and Garrett have already pitched and sandy is starting tomorrow.

looks like every guy will get two innings first start, then 3-4 for a few starts and maybe 5-6 towards the end of spring. This will likely be Sandy’s only spring training start tomorrow as he’s going to the WBC and is starting their first game

[Nick]

I agree. I liked the proposal some have thrown out of continue with normal rules through 3 extra innings (1 time through the lineup), and THEN switch to the placed runner rule in the 13th if still tied after that.




I feel like a runner on first would end up resulting in a lot of immediate double plays, causing MORE game time.

Maybe I'm a masochist but I liked the rare 17-18 inning game. Sure, maybe I wouldn't be able to stay up and watch the game to a conclusion, or I had other things to do, but that's not the end of the world to me. I liked that it would have an affect for like the next week, and teams would have to scramble to compensate, that's some of the charm we're losing I feel, it's a long ass season and having to deal with the trials and tribulations that would happen during that season and the relatively few teams that used to make the postseason made you feel like these teams really earned their spot, so when the crapshoot of the playoffs came, it was hard to complain that well this team just got hot at the right time, because they had to do a lot just to get that spot.

[fish16]

I think it's mild criticism they think 33 year old Brazoban has more value than 26 year old Neidert or Poteet. That says a lot, but I find that peculiar. I'd bet on Poteet and not worry about carrying Brazoban on the 40 man.

As for Garrett, he'd be a weapon out of the pen with the slider (https://www.pitcherlist.com/12-under...es-in-2022/).* The issue is, he should be used for 130+ innings not 70 so they need to figure out how to get him those. I think it's 32 appearances for 4 innings a pop, or maybe it's closer to 40+ appearances with 3+ IP a pop and he's effectively just going through the order once with a few more batters. I think they'll be able to manage this as Cabrera needs to be really babied in this way also and as we've discussed, if anyone gets hurt, they have everyone stretched out already for an instant replacement. Also, I hope Puk is more of a 90-100 IP guy also here over 45-50 appearances. Basically how the Rangers sort of used Brock Burke who is awesome (https://www.fangraphs.com/players/br...ats?position=P). Get these guys innings, they can handle it. Spread them out.


*And as a side note with that article, I hope Luzardo's changeup usage increases so we can project him for more innings longterm - becomes an instant extend with more changeup dependency if it doesn't eliminate the value of the arsenal. Add this to the list also of why I think Brubaker is a perfect 2nd player to get from the Pirates also if that deal for Reynolds ever happens.

In regards to puk, I think a lot of innings is the plan. Probably closer to 80 than 90 as that might be pushing it with his injury history, but skip seemed to indicate he will be an Andrew Miller multi inning weapon potentially out of the pen. I think that deal is going to be a steal for us. He was building up to be a starter for this year supposedly, so i think he’s going to pitch a lot. Skip has really
impressed me this spring as far as his comments about how he will manage, especially the bullpen. He has said our best pitchers will pitch against their best hitters, whether that’s the 8th or 9th. That’s the way to go. Outs aren’t more valuable in the 9th than the 8th if their best hitters are up in the 8th.

it’s little small things like This that should be self explanatory that drove me completely nuts with Mattingly. Skip should be a much better in game manager. Mattingly was a great clubhouse guy for a rebuilding team as a manager, but for a team trying to win, he’s an ideal bench coach, not a manager. He’s in the perfect role now for Toronto

[lou]

Player approaches may stay the same ("I want home runs"), but the result of no extreme shifts will end up being more hits on balls put in play that aren't HRs.

Sure but this doesn't change the fan experience which was the comment. It's going to have no difference IMO with someone like Soler getting 8 more singles. The pitch clock/speed of game is going to be huge. Shaving 30 minutes off games maybe is going to make everyone happier with consistent game time action. Big improvement.

Lower the mound if we want more "hitting" than "hacking" I say.