2022-2023 Offseason Thread

[Lee Stone]

I would have left Arraez in Minnesota and traded for Rafaela to play CF and Peraza to play SS. That would have added two speedy, versatile players to the lineup.

[lou]

I would have left Arraez in Minnesota and traded for Rafaela to play CF and Peraza to play SS. That would have added two speedy, versatile players to the lineup.

Great idea if those teams were willingly to trade them, which they clearly aren't as both guys are a need for them?

[fish16]

I would have left Arraez in Minnesota and traded for Rafaela to play CF and Peraza to play SS. That would have added two speedy, versatile players to the lineup.

The quickness with which you fall in love with guys whose name you didnt know a month ago is hilarious. Rafaela is a nice prospect. He also was a nothing prospect a year ago, never displayed any power until this past year, and had never had an OPS above .729 in his first 3 full minor league seasons. Also, how exactly do we get both Rafaela and Peraza from different teams? Now who are we giving up? which one did we give up pablo for, because it would be a horrible trade if either of those 2 were the main piece back from Pablo. Both of them are low OBP guys who do not walk who have shown nothing at the big league level.


They got a guy who combined with jazz is going to be the heart of the team and a fan favorite within a month who won the batting title last year.

[lou]

if Reynolds is not actually available yet, the orioles have a ton of hitting prospects that could make a ton of sense for us to go after using the pitching. 8 top 100 prospects in total according to the list that came out from pipeline yesterday, 6 of which are bats. Fulton and Eder might be an interesting swap for Westburg or Joey ortiz. Westburg is probably the better fit there. Ortiz is a SS and while we dont have a long term answer there, we have a ton more options over the next few years than 3b, of which we have none because Berry is a 1b. Say we swap fulton or Eder or some combo of those guys for Westburg, if Berry pans out, that leaves us in a pretty decent position in 2024.

C- Fortes
1b- Berry
2b- Arraez
SS- ? Segura ?
3b- Westburg
LF- Sanchez/Bleday
CF- Jazz
RF- Garcia
DH- Soler

Obviously SS would be a big question, but i would prefer to go after a long term 3b if we make a move right now and let the SS prospects show something for 1 more year of development. I think we will have a much better idea of what we have in Watson, Cappe, Lewis, ets after this year.

Plus we havent had a longterm cornerstone type 3b in way too long. Our leaders at 3b in WAR by year- Anderson for 5 years, then Dietrich, then prado for 2, then mcgehee, then polanco, then hanley in 2012, then Dobbs, helms, bonifacio, then cantu. Those are our 3b since we traded Cabrera.

Westburg would be nice, but I can't see a scenario they get ANOTHER 2B/3B type. Jazz could fail you know (and not be able to play SS), and then what? They probably don't want Segura at SS.

It's a SS or CF(and move Jazz back to SS). That's the best longterm move IMO. Past that, I'd say it's a radical LF upgrade (Reynolds obv). I'd leave 1B alone for now and see what Cooper/Berry do, and worst cause Arraez could do 1B and they have great 2B options right now with Berti and any one of Groshans/Amaya/Edwards being alright solves that quick with some shuffling. C/3B would be real luxury upgrades right now to round this out.

Lee is right Peraza would be ideal even if expensive in trade. Rafaela would be too longterm, but he's a year away. Are we trying to win in 2023? If so, trade Baltimore some pitching, Baltimore can send Austin Hays to Cleveland, and the Marlins can get........ It's the obvious move however they can get him.

[fish16]

Westburg would be nice, but I can't see a scenario they get ANOTHER 2B/3B type. Jazz could fail you know (and not be able to play SS), and then what? They probably don't want Segura at SS.

It's a SS or CF(and move Jazz back to SS). That's the best longterm move IMO. Past that, I'd say it's a radical LF upgrade (Reynolds obv). I'd leave 1B alone for now and see what Cooper/Berry do, and worst cause Arraez could do 1B and they have great 2B options right now with Berti and any one of Groshans/Amaya/Edwards being alright solves that quick with some shuffling. C/3B would be real luxury upgrades right now to round this out.

Lee is right Peraza would be ideal even if expensive in trade. Rafaela would be too longterm, but he's a year away. Are we trying to win in 2023? If so, trade Baltimore some pitching, Baltimore can send Austin Hays to Cleveland, and the Marlins can get........ It's the obvious move however they can get him.

Austin hays does nothing for me. His only 2 full years the last 2 years, he put up an OBP of .308 and .306. To me he's another in a long list of guys who are mediocre to average elsewhere and come here and crater in this ballpark and with the lack of talent around him. I think if they make another addition for a bat, it needs to be a long term impact bat, like a reynolds, or a high profile prospect that has a good obp that isnt reliant on power that is not elite type power. Hays isnt a bad player, but it doesnt move the needle enough for me this year or long term. I know youre of the opinion that we need to make a push for this year and, while i would love that, i dont think hays does much to change this year and he isnt a long term difference maker. We need either that 1 stud bat like reynolds who we could sign long term, or a really good prospect (i honestly would like rafaela though the OBP and 1 good year would scare me). Use the depth of pitching, whether it's meyer, or in my preference fulton and eder, or maybe sixto has some value that someone is willing to take a chance on. Reynolds ideally, or a young prospect like Alek Thomas or even a reclamation buy low chance on a guy like Adell or Kelenic would work for me if we are going to make a move for another bat. I want a stud, or a super talented guy with long term control if they pan out.

And i get your point, but while we have a bunch of middle infielders, none of them are truly 3b options. We have guys that CAN play 3b, but it's not a natural fit, and they dont profile as traditional power bats at 3b. I think long term 3b is just as much if not a bigger need than SS because of the complete lack of minor league options. I mean, at this point in our system it's what, Cappe and thats it? and thats only because Cappe is a SS who we think will outgrow the position. And he's still really really young probably 2025 at the very earliest.

[lou]

Austin hays does nothing for me. His only 2 full years the last 2 years, he put up an OBP of .308 and .306. To me he's another in a long list of guys who are mediocre to average elsewhere and come here and crater in this ballpark and with the lack of talent around him. I think if they make another addition for a bat, it needs to be a long term impact bat, like a reynolds, or a high profile prospect that has a good obp that isnt reliant on power that is not elite type power. Hays isnt a bad player, but it doesnt move the needle enough for me this year or long term. I know youre of the opinion that we need to make a push for this year and, while i would love that, i dont think hays does much to change this year and he isnt a long term difference maker. We need either that 1 stud bat like reynolds who we could sign long term, or a really good prospect (i honestly would like rafaela though the OBP and 1 good year would scare me). Use the depth of pitching, whether it's meyer, or in my preference fulton and eder, or maybe sixto has some value that someone is willing to take a chance on. Reynolds ideally, or a young prospect like Alek Thomas or even a reclamation buy low chance on a guy like Adell or Kelenic would work for me if we are going to make a move for another bat. I want a stud, or a super talented guy with long term control if they pan out.

And i get your point, but while we have a bunch of middle infielders, none of them are truly 3b options. We have guys that CAN play 3b, but it's not a natural fit, and they dont profile as traditional power bats at 3b. I think long term 3b is just as much if not a bigger need than SS because of the complete lack of minor league options. I mean, at this point in our system it's what, Cappe and thats it? and thats only because Cappe is a SS who we think will outgrow the position. And he's still really really young probably 2025 at the very earliest.

Well good thing I said Hays is going to Cleveland in this hypothetical. He is also a lefty killer (.777 OPS career, much higher in 2021) so he is perfect for Cleveland's needs if we are trying to find an OF for Cleveland to get their SS.

If Arizona would trade Alek Thomas and Jazz *can* play SS sign me up.

Segura is signed for 2 years (with a third year option) and Arraez is going nowhere obviously. Except 1B if he fails and then Jazz moves back to the infield (or Edwards/Amaya/etc. take a spot). 3B isn't a need. Groshans is a real FV45 prospect with upside, and Berti is also controlled next year. FWIW, Berry still lists as a 3B and sure, Cappe is likely the solution here longterm once Segura/Groshans are done. Wherever Jazz isn't playing CF/SS is the biggest longterm need today, absent the need for "an epic bat anywhere" which is Reynolds or better level.

[Namaste]

Well good thing I said Hays is going to Cleveland in this hypothetical.

I laughed.

[rmc523]

Wacha I think has been mentioned on here if we trade another starter. Apparently he's looking for a 2 year deal in the 30M range.

[fish16]

We just traded for Matt Barnes from the red sox as a relief option. Inconsistent last few years and im assuming the Red Sox are eating the vast majority of the money owed to him, so good buy low opportunity. He ended the year great not giving up a run from the beginning of August to the end of the year. 7 of the last 8 years FIP under 3.87. Really good opportunity to get a guy with back end experience in pressurized situations in Boston.

[fish16]

Wow we gave up Richard Bleier. So we just cut Bleier's money. Wonder how much we got the Red Sox to cover of Barnes money. Bleier was decent for us those few years but he struck no one out and didnt throw with much velocity. Guys with limited velocity and limited k's dont tend to be valuable commodities out of the pen, but he was a good pickup for cheap a few years ago. seems like a good dude, hope he does well in Boston.

Barnes had an average fastball velocity of 95 but his k rate plummeted last year, so maybe they saw something to get back to the all star form he was in 2021.

[rmc523]

Wow we gave up Richard Bleier. So we just cut Bleier's money. Wonder how much we got the Red Sox to cover of Barnes money. Bleier was decent for us those few years but he struck no one out and didnt throw with much velocity. Guys with limited velocity and limited k's dont tend to be valuable commodities out of the pen, but he was a good pickup for cheap a few years ago. seems like a good dude, hope he does well in Boston.

Barnes had an average fastball velocity of 95 but his k rate plummeted last year, so maybe they saw something to get back to the all star form he was in 2021.

Maybe Mel can work his magic.

[fish16]

Will have to wait and see, but given that Barnes was DFA'd, id imagine a decent amount of money is being eaten. It would be interesting if they had the Sox ate the exact amount of money on Barnes for us to be essentially be paying the same amount of Bleier's deal, but to barnes instead.

Yup, we got "cash considerations".

[fish16]

Would have preferred an Alex Reyes, and who knows maybe thats still on the table, but barnes is a really nice consolation prize and gives us another late inning option with back end experience. Peripherals arent terrible, maybe the change of scenery to a much different enviroment can bring back the all star form. Love the move, especially offloading bleiers money. This is in all likelihood a very close to money neutral move. and we clearly got the better reliever.

[fish16]

So we got 1 million in cash. Barnes contract for this year is 7.5 million, plus a club option next year for 8. Bleier's salary was 3.5 this year. So we essentially took on $3 million more and added Barnes and lost Bleier while we have multiple lefty options already. Good deal for a small cost.

[lou]

We just traded for Matt Barnes from the red sox as a relief option. Inconsistent last few years and im assuming the Red Sox are eating the vast majority of the money owed to him, so good buy low opportunity. He ended the year great not giving up a run from the beginning of August to the end of the year. 7 of the last 8 years FIP under 3.87. Really good opportunity to get a guy with back end experience in pressurized situations in Boston.

Bleier cuts $3.75m ($3.5m + $.25m buyout) and this adds $10.6m ($8.375m + $2.25m buyout). So they are adding $7m here over 2 years, so I agree with other post, I do hope Boston is covering "something" here as adding $7m and losing 1 season of Bleier seems like a lot for Barnes alone. Effectively, if Boston sends over $3m bucks also, Bleier and Barnes are each 1/$7m+ players for each of them and that seems like a pretty fair trade all around if that happens. An equal exchange for a R/L and each has an option if they work out for next year and Bleier's is much less.

Devin Smeltzer is a quasi-Bleier clone too (who can start)... as well as this is suggestive Garret is becoming their bulk reliever for a third pen lefty. So all of this makes sense if they get a little money or a low-end FV40 prospect from Boston.

Sandy, Luzardo, Cueto, Rogers, Cabrera
Barnes, Floro, Chargois, Nance, Enright
Garrett, Scott, Okert

Looks pretty good with Eury, Eder, Sixto, Smeltzer, (Castano, Brazoban), and the RP prospects (Simpson, Nardi, Soriano, Villalobos, Reynolds) in AAA. Frankly this is an entire second pitching staff if we include Meyer, Bender, Fulton, and McCambley long term.