2022-2023 Offseason Thread

[lou]

who is talking about selling the farm? The braves gave up William Contreras. Enough already, how many guys have to come and go that we "check in on" before we question Ng's ability to close any deal. I dont blame her for free agents, but trades? She deserves the vast majority of the blame for the failure to pull the trigger. Let's wait to see the price on Murphy because as of right now it makes 0 sense to me that the Brewers got contreras for essentially PIna who is a mediocre catcher, but how many guys can continue to go on the trade market and we dont get them and Ng continue to avoid huge blame. Enough already, pull the fucking trigger on a deal or get rid of her. IT's every offseason, every deadline, every guy that gets moved, we're in on XYZ but cant ever pull the trigger. So we hoard prospects on a team that is going to win 70 games max?

You realize a lot is going on here right? This is a large deal - The Braves have acquired catcher Sean Murphy from the A’s, reports Jeff Passan of ESPN. It’s actually a three-team trade, per Passan, with William Contreras going to the Brewers and Manny Pina to the A’s. Right-handed pitching prospect Freddy Tarnok will be going from Atlanta to Oakland, per Robert Murray of FanSided. The A’s will also get outfielder Esteury Ruiz from Milwaukee, per Murray. Joel Sherman of The New York Post adds that Joel Payamps and Justin Yeager will go to the Brewers. Kiley McDaniel of ESPN reports that left-hander Kyle Muller is going to Oakland. It’s not yet known if this is the full deal or if more players are involved. (https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/)

[fish16]

the a's got Pina, a mediocre catcher, Tarnok, the braves 6th best prospect in a not so special system anymore, and Ruiz, the 9th best prospect in a mediocre brewers system, plus Kyle Muller who is maybe a mid rotation arm? We could have easily beat that. I'm not complaining about this particular deal as we have bigger needs than catcher somehow sadly, but these really good players are available constantly and we continue to fail at acquiring a single one of them.

[lou]

This is like the Marlins trading Rogers/Luzardo/Cabrera, Eder/Fulton, and Miller for Murphy. Maybe some throw ins too.

So yes, selling the farm.

[fish16]

You realize a lot is going on here right? This is a large deal - The Braves have acquired catcher Sean Murphy from the A’s, reports Jeff Passan of ESPN. It’s actually a three-team trade, per Passan, with William Contreras going to the Brewers and Manny Pina to the A’s. Right-handed pitching prospect Freddy Tarnok will be going from Atlanta to Oakland, per Robert Murray of FanSided. The A’s will also get outfielder Esteury Ruiz from Milwaukee, per Murray. Joel Sherman of The New York Post adds that Joel Payamps and Justin Yeager will go to the Brewers. Kiley McDaniel of ESPN reports that left-hander Kyle Muller is going to Oakland. It’s not yet known if this is the full deal or if more players are involved. (https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/)

that's not a terribly impressive haul. It's a lot of names, none all that spectacular, plus they also got rid of a quality bullpen arm in payamps.

[lou]

More importantly - https://twitter.com/BNightengale/sta...MDd1NQLNvf7v9Q

The Astros do not have anywhere near what the Marlins can send for Varsho.

THAT'S the one Kim can't miss. If she misses on the Arizona CF for the love of fuck.

[fish16]

This is like the Marlins trading Rogers/Luzardo/Cabrera, Eder/Fulton, and Miller for Murphy. Maybe some throw ins too.

So yes, selling the farm.

lol what, it's not remotely like that. They traded a catcher that they were upgrading on in the same deal, a 25 year old prospect coming off a mediocre year with mid rotation ceiling, and a decent SP prospect.

[sports24/7]

Mish is clearly a great reporter and has sources with this team, but the consistent trotting out there of this line where "they spent over $100 million last offseason" is laughable. First off, 100 million is what most good teams spend in long term money over every offseason. If you sign a single big name free agent, even if it's not the 300 million guys, it should put you over 100 million in guarantees.

Second, the 100 million is over how many years? soler is 36 over 3, Garcia is only 48 million guaranteed over 4, and Sandy's deal was an obvious discount because they were signing him early, which is not for nothing, but it's just not an impressive amount of money for a major league organization to brag about. and they most certainly were counting on Soler opting out after this year for the cost of just 12 million over 1 year. Adding 24 million per year in payroll over 3-4 years plus sandy is not any kind of significant investment that any major league organization should trot out there as some sort of indication of "spending money." It's frankly more pathetic to trot that out there as the company line. 12 million a year for 2 different players is what this franchise is bragging about as "spending". If thats not an indication that this guy needs to sell the team immediately, what is?

Yeah, he does now and then go to bat for the team when they don't necessarily deserve it. But he has sources he needs to make feel good, or at least probably wants to believe are doing well. He's also hard on them when they deserve it, though. Overall, I think he's one of the better beat guys in the market, and pretty good with info on a national level. And for a team with absolute dregs when it comes to media coverage to the point where you rarely hear from any of them, and they all flat out refuse to do anything hard hitting, he's a massive breath of fresh air. The coverage of this team from everyone else might actually be worse than the team itself.

[lou]

lol what, it's not remotely like that. They traded a catcher that they were upgrading on in the same deal, a 25 year old prospect coming off a mediocre year with mid rotation ceiling, and a decent SP prospect.

Yes, it is remotely like that whether you wish to agree or not. I find it curious how you complain the front office won't strike a deal and at the same time over value the Marlins guys

[fish16]

Muller was never more than around the 50-60 prospect ranking according to baseball prospectus, america, and mlb.com. We dont really have a comp for Contreras because we have 0 hitting in our system but they upgraded their C by a decent amount for Muller and a SP prospect that BA has as 9th in the braves system that is no longer very good because so many guys have graduated. Tarnok is a bullpen guy longterm according to fangraphs due to not having a 3rd pitch about 45 FV and 45 FV control. They dont have overall rankings but the 9th guy in the braves system would be a lot lower in our system like the mid to late teens.

[fish16]

Yes, it is remotely like that whether you wish to agree or not. I find it curious how you complain the front office won't strike a deal and at the same time over value the Marlins guys

im not overvaluing the marlins guys, you're overvaluing the prospects the braves just gave up. You just compared Muller who is not a top 100 prospect anymore and is 25 with more of a high floor than high ceiling,, getting an upgrade on contreras, and the 9th best prospect in a bad farm system after graduations, to luzardo/cabrera/rogers (all of which have shown top of the rotation ability either last year or in 2021), eder/fulton (eder was top 100 pre TJ and is still in that mix), and Miller (45th overall pick less than 6 months ago).

To put it into perspective, Miller and Muller both are 50 FV guys according to mlb.com. Your beloved fangraphs has him at 45 FV and Tarnok at 40 FV. To put that into perspective in our system, they have Dax Fulton at 45 FV and Cody Poteet at 40 midseason. They got a big upgrade at C while giving up very little other that hurts other than Contreras.

[lou]

Muller was never more than around the 50-60 prospect ranking according to baseball prospectus, america, and mlb.com. We dont really have a comp for Contreras because we have 0 hitting in our system but they upgraded their C by a decent amount for Muller and a SP prospect that BA has as 9th in the braves system that is no longer very good because so many guys have graduated. Tarnok is a bullpen guy longterm according to fangraphs due to not having a 3rd pitch about 45 FV and 45 FV control. They dont have overall rankings but the 9th guy in the braves system would be a lot lower in our system like the mid to late teens.

The comp for Contreras (projected 1.8 WAR next year, 5 years of control, coming off a 2.4 WAR year) is effectively Luzardo/Rogers/Cabrera. Luzardo/Rogers less years of control and will be more expensive (catchers get nothing in arbitration), versus Cabrera is more unestablished had has another year of control. Muller and Tarnok are likely FV45 prospects right now, which is effectively Eder/Fulton and Miller as stated. So you agree with me based on this post you just made so I don't know why you are up in arms, unless you just want to vault the Marlins guys higher on personal bias. Which is fine if you want to make that call, but I'd defer to experts in their field to better understand players. For perspective, do you know how excited we will be if any player on the marlins hitting core has a 2.4 WAR next year besides Jazz?

Regardless, I sense this is just frustration that the team is pathetic for not doing anything, but we'll see what they do.

Moving Pablo to Toronto is gone now as they just signed Bassist, so choices are dwindling.

[fish16]

The comp for Contreras (projected 1.8 WAR next year, 5 years of control, coming off a 2.4 WAR year) is effectively Luzardo/Rogers/Cabrera. Luzardo/Rogers less years of control and will be more expensive (catchers get nothing in arbitration), versus Cabrera is more unestablished had has another year of control. Muller and Tarnok are likely FV45 prospects right now, which is effectively Eder/Fulton and Miller as stated. So you agree with me based on this post you just made so I don't know why you are up in arms, unless you just want to vault the Marlins guys higher on personal bias. Which is fine if you want to make that call, but I'd defer to experts in their field to better understand players. For perspective, do you know how excited we will be if any player on the marlins hitting core has a 2.4 WAR next year besides Jazz?

Regardless, I sense this is just frustration that the team is pathetic for not doing anything, but we'll see what they do.

Moving Pablo to Toronto is gone now as they just signed Bassist, so choices are dwindling.

It's not related solely to this offseason. It's 2 fucking years of sitting on your ass and pissing on the fanbase and acting like it's raining. Every single free agent, which i dont blame on Ng, all we hear is "marlins made an offer" or "marlins were in on ___". Every single trade deadline it's "marlins were close on _____" or marlins were asking too much for ____. Enough. At a certain point, if every single fucking deal or trade offer is how close we are, we dont have the right people in charge. Not everything can be the perfect deal, and it's been abundantly clear for 2 fucking years that they have a ton of pitching that they need to deal off of to find some hitting. You mean to tell me they cant find a single impactful deal for 2 years? It's enough already. 1 deal, hey shit happens. 2 straight fucking years of being unable to find the deal to improve the lineup is just mismanagement and a GM who cant finish a deal.

[lou]

It's not related solely to this offseason. It's 2 fucking years of sitting on your ass and pissing on the fanbase and acting like it's raining. Every single free agent, which i dont blame on Ng, all we hear is "marlins made an offer" or "marlins were in on ___". Every single trade deadline it's "marlins were close on _____" or marlins were asking too much for ____. Enough. At a certain point, if every single fucking deal or trade offer is how close we are, we dont have the right people in charge. Not everything can be the perfect deal, and it's been abundantly clear for 2 fucking years that they have a ton of pitching that they need to deal off of to find some hitting. You mean to tell me they cant find a single impactful deal for 2 years? It's enough already. 1 deal, hey shit happens. 2 straight fucking years of being unable to find the deal to improve the lineup is just mismanagement and a GM who cant finish a deal.

Yes they suck - that is our north star.

The deal is Arizona. Four centerfielders, all left handed, need pitching. No team in baseball should win that against the Marlins based on their immediate and longterm need AND having many options on arms.

[Lee Stone]

The deal is certainly not Justin Turner! Why in the hell would the Marlins be talking with him?

[fish16]

The deal is certainly not Justin Turner! Why in the hell would the Marlins be talking with him?

probably has something to do with the fact that he has been one of the best and most consistent 3b in the entire league for going on 9 years and the fact that he would only be getting a 2 year deal for an amount that isnt going to break the bank. As the number 1 addition it's underwhelming, but he would be a great addition if for some reason he chooses us. As opposed to Brandon Drury who isnt a very good player and might get equal or more money than him and would be destined to stink here.

turners war by year since 2014- 3.4, 3.9, 4.4, 5.9, 4.3, 4.1, 1.4 in the covid year, 4.2, and 2.4 last year.