2022-2023 Offseason Thread

[Nick]

I think we do have a bigger owner problem than a GM problem. But having an owner problem necessitates having a good GM, and I think we might also have a GM problem. Just because we have a cheap owner doesn't mean we can't want more from the GM.



I don't think it's been impossible. While it certainly makes their jobs more difficult, I think we can evaluate them. The Marlins had a highly respected pool of prospects last offseason that really weren't used to make any significant moves. That pool has now depreciated in value, but there's enough there to improve the roster. Also, while they may not have been willing to spend big last offseason, they were willing to spend some. The money they spent on Garcia and Soler could have been spent more wisely than it was. And that's not getting into the stuff about them having a deal for Reynolds that Miami pulled out of at the last minute. The failure to capitalize on trading Pablo Lopez while his value was probably at its highest. The failure to get any kind of value out of a guy like Brian Anderson. Those really aren't spending issues.

It should be easier to evaluate Ng than the others that preceded her, I will give you that.

With Beinfest and Hill there was always the question, well how many of these deals are just Loria overriding their asses, and doing shit himself? Because we all know that happened numerous times. Then Hill remained the GM when Sherman/Jeter took over, and that never made any fucking sense, because logic dictates and we got indications that Jeter and his boy Denbo were the guys really running the show, which made sense. Then Ng took over, and Jeter/Denbo were still there, it's been about 9 months since Jeter left and less since Denbo was dismissed. So Ng for the first time in seemingly forever is a Marlins GM that is the clear cut person calling the shots. (at least it seems that way) I haven't been impressed with what she's done so far, but it's also impossible to evaluate in such a short time.

[rmc523]

I think we do have a bigger owner problem than a GM problem. But having an owner problem necessitates having a good GM, and I think we might also have a GM problem. Just because we have a cheap owner doesn't mean we can't want more from the GM.



I don't think it's been impossible. While it certainly makes their jobs more difficult, I think we can evaluate them. The Marlins had a highly respected pool of prospects last offseason that really weren't used to make any significant moves. That pool has now depreciated in value, but there's enough there to improve the roster. Also, while they may not have been willing to spend big last offseason, they were willing to spend some. The money they spent on Garcia and Soler could have been spent more wisely than it was. And that's not getting into the stuff about them having a deal for Reynolds that Miami pulled out of at the last minute. The failure to capitalize on trading Pablo Lopez while his value was probably at its highest. The failure to get any kind of value out of a guy like Brian Anderson. Those really aren't spending issues.

Agreed. Bruce being cheap doesn't mean Kim can just put her feet on her desk and throw her hands in the air and have no blame.

I also go back to her in-season roster management, or lack thereof, where the team will have a few injured guys unable to play, yet a roster move isn't made, and we're 1-2 bench players short for weeks on end. Absolutely no reason for that to be the case.

The way she seems to have evaluated Garcia/Soler seems highly flawed too - kept throwing out wildly inaccurate stats for both of them.....which I get maybe you won't remember all the stats on a guy on the spot, but don't make them up.

[rmc523]

It should be easier to evaluate Ng than the others that preceded her, I will give you that.

With Beinfest and Hill there was always the question, well how many of these deals are just Loria overriding their asses, and doing shit himself? Because we all know that happened numerous times. Then Hill remained the GM when Sherman/Jeter took over, and that never made any fucking sense, because logic dictates and we got indications that Jeter and his boy Denbo were the guys really running the show, which made sense. Then Ng took over, and Jeter/Denbo were still there, it's been about 9 months since Jeter left and less since Denbo was dismissed. So Ng for the first time in seemingly forever is a Marlins GM that is the clear cut person calling the shots. (at least it seems that way) I haven't been impressed with what she's done so far, but it's also impossible to evaluate in such a short time.

Yeah, under Loria, it seemed like the big moves - whether it be signings or bizarre trades (i.e. Paddack for Rodney) - were Loria's doing, whereas Beinfest/Hill were in charge of the other things.

[lou]

I also go back to her in-season roster management, or lack thereof, where the team will have a few injured guys unable to play, yet a roster move isn't made, and we're 1-2 bench players short for weeks on end. Absolutely no reason for that to be the case.

To quib - service time and shave a few dollars. It is *very* intentional Cabrera and Garrett have 168 service days and they are maneuvering their guys to maximize time/avoid super 2 status.

But yes, generally Kim can do more with the resources she has been given, even if those resources suck. But we can't expect her to polish a turd in any scenario, so for me, fault lays 80% or more on Bruce.

I may be wrong, but give Kim $130m and I expect this team would look *awesome* short and long term. That's bottom 18/19 money after being cheap for 5 years of this ownership group. That's keeping everyone (but one of Wendle/Rojas) and out right adding Correa (a little deferred), Nimmo, Turner/Longorio, and a Bass/Bleier level $3m reliever. There could be a farm trade on top of this to add something else exciting, like blowing out Meyer, Salas, Fulton, and Burdick in an Alek Thomas trade to take over LF/CF around Nimmo, etc. We can dream. But like, is that hard to do so she doesn't get credit as these needs are that obvious? Does she get credit for making it this obvious? I am sympathetic. It's Bruce.

[Namaste]

Craig Mish dropping Arreaz’s name on Twitter

[Namaste]

The Brandon Nimmo roaming CF in Miami pipe dream is over

[Lee Stone]

The Brandon Nimmo roaming CF in Miami pipe dream is over

He's not so hot as a CF

[lou]

Craig Mish dropping Arreaz’s name on Twitter

If he can play 2B/3B 100+ starts, let's do it. I wonder if they can get Polanco (for SS) also.

[lou]

He's not so hot as a CF

He's pretty good out there. It's too bad. Mets really spending.

[Namaste]

He's not so hot as a CF

Did you want Nimmo starting in CF for us or DLC (or anyone we have in the organization)?

[Namaste]

Lee, you’re right. What was I thinking wanting a 5.5 WAR leading off and playing CF in Miami. I’ve seen the light!

[fish16]

Craig Mish dropping Arreaz’s name on Twitter

As they should. Batting champ, would be great in our ballpark, despite what Lou thinks the bat plays at 1b, and would immediately help our situational hitting with his plate discipline and ability to put the ball in play. Much better than the oft injured Cooper despite Lou’s insistence that a 1b give us more than 8hr’s despite coopers 9 hrs last year which is clearly much better

[lou]

As they should. Batting champ, would be great in our ballpark, despite what Lou thinks the bat plays at 1b, and would immediately help our situational hitting with his plate discipline and ability to put the ball in play. Much better than the oft injured Cooper despite Lou’s insistence that a 1b give us more than 8hr’s despite coopers 9 hrs last year which is clearly much better

Trading your best or second best asset to play a guy -permanently- out of position or at very minimum, extremely inefficient where you only get 75-80% of value versus playing him at 2B (or 3B if he can do it), is something the Marlins would do. Because they are good at losing.

If he can play 100 games at 2B/3B, count me in. Get Polanco also and ship'em Rojas who is a perfect 2B platoon partner for N. Gordon. Minnesota signs Correa and this makes sense TBH.

[Lee Stone]

All things considered, I'd rather trade for Jake McCarthy to play CF for Marlins than Bryan Reynolds.

[Namaste]

All things considered I'd rather trade for Jake McCarthy to play CF for Marlins than Bryan Reynolds.

He was just as good as Reynolds last year but did you consider that he played 12 games in CF in 2022?