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2021-2022 Offseason Thread

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  • ESPN's Kiley McDaniel put out his top 100 list, and seems to be higher on the Marlins' prospects than most. At least from a rankings standpoint. He has Meyer (33), Watson (40), Cabrera (44), Sanchez (54), Perez (55), Burdick (71), and Bleday (91). I think that's the first I've seen Burdick on any of these lists.

    33. Max Meyer, RHP, Miami Marlins

    Age: 22 | Bats: Left | Throws: Right
    Type: Fastball/slider-oriented potential front-line starter

    I scouted Meyer last spring when he had a matchup with Hunter Greene and I thought Meyer was good, but a little different than he was in college. Meyer's velo spiked in the shortened 2020 spring, hitting 100 mph and flashing an 80-grade spiked slider coming out of a Walker Buehler-ish aggressive delivery from a slighter built righty. In the game I saw, I graded him out with three 55-grade pitches, with the fastball/slider showing 60 grades at times, which I'm told was one of his weaker stuff showings of the year. Over a full season with shorter rest, 100 mph and an 80 slider wasn't realistic, so there's a bit of question around exactly where Meyer's stuff will settle.

    He's already in Jupiter and pumping 97 mph, and he sat at 94.6 over last season. I think he'll pitch in 2022 with a 60-grade fastball, 65-grade slider and 50-to-55-grade changeup while continuing to show the components for average, starter-grade command. Meyer was a bit of a late bloomer, not really engaging with his own analytics or pitching gurus, playing multiple sports, and now he's learned a yearlong routine of a starter, something he hadn't done before in his career. I like the raw talent, makeup and signals for more growth versus the average 22-year-old top-10 pick, so count me on the Meyer train.


    40. Kahlil Watson, SS, Miami Marlins

    Age: 18 | Bats: Left | Throws: Right
    Type: Gifted hitter with real defensive value

    Watson was a revelation two summers ago on the showcase circuit, when the largely Southeast-based prep events still happened while the Cape and other college leagues were largely dormant. Watson made the most of it, coming out of nowhere on a midtier travel team to show a plus bat, emerging raw power that's at least above average, and a middle-infield fit along with solid average speed. There's some question as to whether he'll fit at shortstop or second and exactly how much of his power makes it in games, but he's otherwise one of the most stable talents you can bet on in the lower minors: left-handed-hitting, hit-first middle infielder with some pop.

    He was No. 5 on my draft board, and there were rumors he'd be an underslot option at a top-five pick moments before the draft, but he ended up sliding all the way to the No. 16 pick, signing for $4.54 million (roughly the 11th overall slot). The early returns with the Marlins are all positive (the stats have been great in a small sample), and I think the competition level in a pro environment, particularly with Derek Jeter around and engaged with Watson specifically, is exactly where he will thrive. This is the kind of player who ends up in the top 10 of this list in a year or two, and I think a number of teams will feel foolish for passing on him.


    44. Edward Cabrera, RHP, Miami Marlins

    Age: 23 | Bats: Right | Throws: Right
    Type: Potential No. 2-3 starter, if he gets more aggressive

    If Ryan Pepiot (No. 59 on this list) has the best changeup in the minors, Cabrera isn't far behind him and is definitely in the top five. In addition, he's listed at 6-foot-5, 217 pounds, sits 95-98 mph with his fastball, and has two above-average breaking balls and a history of strike-throwing. That wasn't really around in 2021 for the first time, at Triple-A and the big leagues, when he was trying to get hitters to chase and started nibbling, soon finding that more advanced hitters would fall for that. He threw his heater less than 40% of the time as another measure of trying to be too cute. So, the adjustments are pretty simple to just trust your raw stuff a bit more, which he has proved he can do.


    54. Sixto Sanchez, RHP, Miami Marlins

    Age: 23 | Bats: Right | Throws: Right
    Type: Potential front-line starter coming off shoulder surgery

    You're probably already familiar with Sanchez and likely have seen a few clips of his pitches (96-99 mph sinker, 70-grade changeup, above-average slider) darting all over the place. His career 1.0 WAR from seven career big league outings in 2020 will also eclipse the career totals of more than a few players on this list. All that said, he missed all of 2021 with a shoulder injury that led to surgery that he's still recovering from. Expectations are he'll be back on a mound and reasonably back to his old self sometime this year, but shoulders are much trickier to handicap than elbow surgeries.

    There seemed to always be something negative from rival evaluators finding its way into my notes on Sanchez over the years: some minor arm soreness here, looking overweight there, never getting the level of whiffs his pure stuff suggests, etc. I'm forced to hedge on Sanchez and cross my fingers hoping he's what those seven starts showed for the foreseeable future.

    The history of pitcher health in general says to be wary of fighting injury inertia; just read the hedging in last year's rankings when I had Sanchez as the top pitching prospect in baseball (11th overall) coming off an electric MLB debut and I was still measured in my praise for the whole top tier of pitchers. In retrospect, only Ian Anderson of that group deserved more love, and he was more very good last year than amazing. Eventually, my top 100 will have just like five pitchers on it.


    55. Eury Perez, RHP, Miami Marlins

    Age: 18 | Bats: Right | Throws: Right
    Type: Massive teenaged front-line starter with advanced potential

    If Volpe was the out-of-nowhere position player riser of the year, Perez qualifies for the pitcher version of that award. He was 23rd on last year's Marlins list as an arrow-up sleeper to watch, but my short report was "6-9 and into the mid-90s with strikes." That's a great place to start and Perez really built on it in 2021. He's now sitting 94-96 (early reports are he was throwing even harder earlier this month), his curveball is now solid average, and his changeup has turned into a 55-or-60-grade out pitch. Even then, with his stuff progressing and keeping his strike-throwing tendencies, the expectation for a normal 18-year-old with this ability would be to pitch in rookie ball, maybe get a few starts in low-A and run into some problems against advanced hitters at times. Instead, Perez carved both low-A and high-A (108 strikeouts, 26 walks) over 78.0 innings, while his domestic peers were facing high school and rookie ball competition.

    If you've read me for a while, you'll know that I tend to round down on velocity-reliant teenaged righties and my second least-favorite type is massive righties. The massive righty (let's say 6-foot-7 and up) has longer arms and more strength and will get velocity early (mixing a bit with that first group) but then often has trouble throwing strikes and becomes somewhat injury prone as he physically matures. There just aren't many massive starting pitchers in baseball because of these heavy headwinds.

    Perez has a solid-average physical ability, so he's not the worst version of what I'm talking about, and he also has the most attractive r

    Comment


    • I think some text cut off? It was just getting to the good part!

      Definitely the first time I have seen Burdick. That's great. This also begs the question if THIS is accurate, why was Garcia signed with three (plus Sanchez) corner OF types around and no hope in CF. Wouldn't you sign Eddie Rosario for 1 and come back to this after the year?

      Or maybe Garcia can play CF and the jokes on us.

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      • Weird. Not sure why it cut off.

        EDIT: I can't figure out why, but it won't let me post the rest of the Perez writeup. Every time I try it cuts off at the same part. Here are Burdick and Bleday:

        71. Peyton Burdick, RF, Miami Marlins


        Age: 24 | Bats: Right | Throws: Right
        Type: Tyler O'Neill-ish compact, explosive outfielder

        Burdick has one of the weirder career paths of anyone in the top 100. He was a relatively anonymous college player until his draft spring at Wright State when the Marlins took him in the third round. He was 22 when this happened since he redshirted a year recovering from Tommy John surgery.

        The selling points at draft time were clear (huge power, right-field tools, performance), but his age, level of competition and maxed-out frame scared off teams. He just kept mashing his way through the minors and is now good enough to play a solid center field, which might be the thing that gets him called up to the big leagues in 2022. The headliner here is his 70-grade power, which comes with walks, strikeouts, solid defense, premium makeup and massive forearms, for the full Tyler O'Neill experience.


        91. J.J. Bleday, RF, Miami Marlins


        Age: 24 | Bats: Left | Throws: Left
        Type: Well-rounded solid everyday right fielder

        If you're looking for explosive upside, Bleday isn't for you. He's also coming off a down year, but going from the SEC in 2019 to no competitive games in 2020 to Double-A in 2021 was a big ask for a number of players who largely struggled. I tend to move more slowly on hitters with long track records, and more drastically move hitters with short track records, where each piece of information means more. I believe in Bleday's bat and indications are that he has bulked up so more power will be coming this year. His best-case scenario is 60 hit/power and I'd expect a notch below that, but a solid everyday right fielder in the upper levels with a long track record is worthy of the back end of the list, even if it isn't exciting per se.
        Last edited by sports24/7; 02-15-2022, 04:26 PM.

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        • There we go. For some reason, it was having difficulty with the word 'resume' with the accents on it the way it was in the article.

          55. Eury Perez, RHP, Miami Marlins



          Age: 18 | Bats: Right | Throws: Right
          Type: Massive teenaged front-line starter with advanced potential

          If Volpe was the out-of-nowhere position player riser of the year, Perez qualifies for the pitcher version of that award. He was 23rd on last year's Marlins list as an arrow-up sleeper to watch, but my short report was "6-9 and into the mid-90s with strikes." That's a great place to start and Perez really built on it in 2021. He's now sitting 94-96 (early reports are he was throwing even harder earlier this month), his curveball is now solid average, and his changeup has turned into a 55-or-60-grade out pitch. Even then, with his stuff progressing and keeping his strike-throwing tendencies, the expectation for a normal 18-year-old with this ability would be to pitch in rookie ball, maybe get a few starts in low-A and run into some problems against advanced hitters at times. Instead, Perez carved both low-A and high-A (108 strikeouts, 26 walks) over 78.0 innings, while his domestic peers were facing high school and rookie ball competition.

          If you've read me for a while, you'll know that I tend to round down on velocity-reliant teenaged righties and my second least-favorite type is massive righties. The massive righty (let's say 6-foot-7 and up) has longer arms and more strength and will get velocity early (mixing a bit with that first group) but then often has trouble throwing strikes and becomes somewhat injury prone as he physically matures. There just aren't many massive starting pitchers in baseball because of these heavy headwinds.

          Perez has a solid-average physical ability, so he's not the worst version of what I'm talking about, and he also has the most attractive resume an 18-year-old pitcher can have. At some point, I have to value what is there and what's been proven on the field and not try to fit players into buckets. To complicate things further, my third least-favorite type of pitcher is the potential front-line starter whose changeup is better than his solid-average-at-best breaking ball, and Perez is at least a little bit in that bucket, too. I point all this out to say that Perez and his teammate Sixto Sanchez, the previous player on this list, are very different types, but are both very talented, very accomplished and very risky to me, for very different reasons. Some players on this list are straightforward and somewhat boring evaluations that largely rank themselves, ranking in the same range on every public list. These two are tough for me and I hope I'm wrong about both.
          Last edited by sports24/7; 02-15-2022, 04:29 PM.

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          • https://twitter.com/flasportsbuzz/st...303719441?s=21

            Tommy Hutton front runner to get some games as Marlins color guy.

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            • Originally posted by Namaste View Post
              https://twitter.com/flasportsbuzz/st...303719441?s=21

              Tommy Hutton front runner to get some games as Marlins color guy.
              I'm glad to hear this. I also am not surprised Tommy doesn't want to do the full schedule, but it'll be great to hear him calling at least a chunk of the games. I still wish they'd bring Rich back too, but they seem to like Paul.

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              • They should bring him back full time. But maybe he doesn't want that at this point of his life. If that's the case, I hope they go out and get someone good instead of what they'll probably do, which is go the cheap route and use one of the in-house guys like JP Arencbia or Gaby Sanchez. I also wish they'd replace Severino. He seems like a nice enough guy, but he just brings very little to the table as a play by play guy. Way too corny with nothing fun or unique about him. Like rmc523 I wish they'd bring Rich back. I'd even prefer Glenn Geffner, who I think does a pretty good job on the radio.

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                • Originally posted by sports24/7 View Post
                  They should bring him back full time. But maybe he doesn't want that at this point of his life. If that's the case, I hope they go out and get someone good instead of what they'll probably do, which is go the cheap route and use one of the in-house guys like JP Arencbia or Gaby Sanchez. I also wish they'd replace Severino. He seems like a nice enough guy, but he just brings very little to the table as a play by play guy. Way too corny with nothing fun or unique about him. Like rmc523 I wish they'd bring Rich back. I'd even prefer Glenn Geffner, who I think does a pretty good job on the radio.
                  In the twitter link, there was a link to a Miami Herald article that had a quote from Tommy saying at this point in his life, he didn't want to do a full season, but was willing to do a partial season - if I have to guess, he'll probably end up doing half (or a good chunk) of the home games so he doesn't have to go through traveling, with the rotating in house people filling in on the road and the rest of the time. It also mentioned that it likely would be the rotation of "cheap" guys you mentioned. I actually thought Arencebia did a decent job when I heard him on the radio - better than Gaby Sanchez, anyway......we know they're not going to pay a "good" guy if they're already slotting Tommy in for a chunk of games - a "good" one would likely want the full season.

                  Severino has gotten better than he was initially, but he still feels too "national broadcast" for me - Rich (and Tommy) had that hometown announcer feeling - granted they did it for so long, I'm sure it took a bit to warm up to them initially too, but still, when nobody wanted Rich gone, it's annoying that they let him go.

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                  • I think they were right to target Marsh for Meyer - https://blogs.fangraphs.com/dont-for...brandon-marsh/

                    I'm buying. I think the realistic scenario is Pablo, Bass, and Cooper, for him and prospects. Angels could use those guys and can sacrifice Marsh and some guys outside their top 5-7 prospects to get it done.

                    Opens up a Schwarber/Castellanos DH signing, get an innings eater, and trade for Keirmaier for nothing but salary.

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                    • Marlins have 4 prospects in the Fangraphs 2022 Top 100 Prospects (none in the Top 48).

                      Although there’s really very little difference between Edward Cabrera (107) and Reid Detmers (40).
                      Last edited by Namaste; 02-23-2022, 09:26 AM.

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                      • Originally posted by lou View Post
                        I think they were right to target Marsh for Meyer - https://blogs.fangraphs.com/dont-for...brandon-marsh/

                        I'm buying. I think the realistic scenario is Pablo, Bass, and Cooper, for him and prospects. Angels could use those guys and can sacrifice Marsh and some guys outside their top 5-7 prospects to get it done.

                        Opens up a Schwarber/Castellanos DH signing, get an innings eater, and trade for Keirmaier for nothing but salary.
                        Brandon Marsh? De La Cruz was much better last season and projects (by Baseball Reference) to be much better this year! I.m all for upgrading CF, but Marsh is likely a downgrade from even De La Cruz. Ane you'd give Pablo for him? Claro que no.

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                        • Originally posted by Lee Stone View Post

                          Brandon Marsh? De La Cruz was much better last season and projects (by Baseball Reference) to be much better this year! I.m all for upgrading CF, but Marsh is likely a downgrade from even De La Cruz. Ane you'd give Pablo for him? Claro que no.
                          Ok Lee

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                          • I do have concerns about adding another high strikeout guy in the lineup in Marsh, but outside of dealing for Ketel Marte I don't see many other CF options.

                            Comment


                            • https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2022-top-100-prospects/

                              Watson 49 (top 5 potential upside for next year(!))
                              Meyer 58 ("a rotation stalwart")
                              Eury 67 (if he were in 2022 draft as a high schooler, top 5 pick)
                              Sixto 80 (mid-rotation starter)
                              Cabrera 107 (impact arm, might be a reliever)
                              Salas 109 (you have to dig for this in comments, but he just missed the list apparently)

                              Considering Bleday and Burdick have made other top 100s, and Eder is likely in this orbit if healthy, this is pretty good depth when you consider they have some other guys (Morisette, McCambley, Mack, I. Lewis, etc.) who aren't duds.

                              I think the scouting consensus suggests Pablo, Meyer, or Eury is the piece you move for a bat. Watson's upside may be too high, but for anyone but Bryan Reynolds. Sixto, Cabrera, Bleday, Burdick, and Salas are all secondary pieces for a star and you'd be selling low as there aren't full believers in them yet.

                              If they were to trade Pablo, Cooper, and Bass for Marsh and 2 more decent angels prospects, that lowers payroll to high 50s. The team really works signing Scwharber/Castellanos, an innings eater/elite reliever, and acquiring a legitimate 4th OF (Kiermaier/Hicks).

                              Stallings, Fortes
                              Aguilar
                              Jazz
                              Rojas, Berti
                              Anderson, Wendle
                              Sanchez
                              Marsh, Keirmaier/Hicks
                              Garcia
                              Schwarber/Castellanos

                              Sandy, Rogers, "Free Agent Arm", Elisier, Luzardo
                              Bender, Floro, Sixto, Cabrera, Pop, Head
                              Bleier, Okert

                              I bet it's a $90m if they are smart with the signings. Fortes/Berti/another lefty reliever likely should be addressed, but they can get to the deadline with this for sure.

                              I would love that team. Especially if the SP is Greinke (who FG projected as getting $10m in another article).

                              Comment


                              • Guys fangraphs thinks may be top 100 next year - https://blogs.fangraphs.com/picks-to...-2023-top-100/

                                It's a grain of salt list (they had Connor Scott on it before), but two Marlins. Salas and...... Osiris Johnson. Wouldn't that be something.

                                Johnson had a terrible start at Low-A Jupiter, striking out in nearly half his at-bats during the first few weeks of the season. He was sent down and rebounded on the complex (he had a 32% barrel rate down there) and earned a trip back up to full-season ball. He hit a respectable .261/.339/.342 on his second try, pretty good for a 20-year-old who had missed 2019 and ’20. Johnson has huge bat speed, his swing is geared for lift, and he has experience at several up-the-middle positions. If he can be more selective, he could break out.

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