2021-2022 Offseason Thread

[Nick]

But if it’s true, why did we make that Stallings trade?

[AdamRavs]

To ease Campusano in? Can DH him too. Stallings behind the plate most of the time and days off Campusano behind the plate

[Namaste]

Stallings had the fifth highest WAR among NL catchers last season (per fangraphs), well ahead of Willson Contreras and Carson Kelly. He's a major league average hitter, not bad for a catcher. That said, I think Pittsburg did a good job in the negotiations.as well. Both teams can point to the deal with pride.

Based on that same Fangraphs WAR, Stallings had the fourth highest rating of all Marlins for the 2021 season, behind only 1) Rogers 2) Alcantara and 3) Avisail Garcia. For those looking for the upside of the two Marlins deals, they acquired the team's two best position players based on Fangraphs compilations.

well said and, like sports24/7, I really don’t understand some of the hate on this trade

some people get tunnel vision on offensive stats

[fish16]

as much as i like campusano and want to see them spend money, Hosmer is owed 22 million this year, and then has player options for 13 million each of the following 3 years. So you're probably getting a top prospect C for cheap at the expense of paying dead weight hosmer 61 million over 4 years to waste a space on the roster. Im all for them spending money, but that also likely means they are done with big moves the rest of the offseason which would mean this offseasons biggest additions are Avisail Garcia, Luis Campusano, and the rotting corpse of Hosmer's contract. Id rather pay the pitching or OF prospects needed to get Campusano alone and reinvest the money that would go to hosmer elsewhere.

I would like the Stallings trade much more however if it meant they were just trying to bridge a year or 2 down the line for Campusano to take over.

[fish16]

well said and, like sports24/7, I really don’t understand some of the hate on this trade

some people get tunnel vision on offensive stats

probably because we had a horrendous offense last year including a .565 OPS as a team from our catchers and gave up 3 useful pieces to get a below average hitting catcher who will be 32 years old next year. This after buying high on another past 30 guy for too many years. He's a good fielder but they needed an upgrade offensively and might have somehow downgraded. Overall its a very slight upgrade but with some of the options out there, if there isn't a plan to get a complementary guy like Campusano or other guy with upside, its such a low ceiling move and honestly might have a pretty low floor offensively as well when stallings gets to this lineup and this ballpark. They have the prospect depth to shoot for young, team controlled, offensive upside, and they shot for the lowest possible ceiling out there.

[lou]

I think I'd rather stay away from Torres, honestly. Until the very end of the year last year, he was pretty bad at the plate, and he was even worse defensively. He's interesting because you'd be buying low, and the upside is still significant, but that's awfully risky when you're sending out the chips you're talking about.

It's basically a Pablo/Torres swap and I'd risk that one personally. He's very young and I am into "significant" upside. He is good defensively at 2B, is likely not a longterm SS. Maybe he can handle 3B. .800 OPS (post all star). I think it's growing pains. I'm a fan.

They'd need to do other things to accomodate this, but it could work.

[sports24/7]

But if it’s true, why did we make that Stallings trade?

I think Stallings gives you a guy who you know can start for you immediately, and handle the staff. I don't think you want to hand over the keys to this group to an unexperienced kid. You could also platoon the two at some point.

[lou]

as much as i like campusano and want to see them spend money, Hosmer is owed 22 million this year, and then has player options for 13 million each of the following 3 years. So you're probably getting a top prospect C for cheap at the expense of paying dead weight hosmer 61 million over 4 years to waste a space on the roster. Im all for them spending money, but that also likely means they are done with big moves the rest of the offseason which would mean this offseasons biggest additions are Avisail Garcia, Luis Campusano, and the rotting corpse of Hosmer's contract. Id rather pay the pitching or OF prospects needed to get Campusano alone and reinvest the money that would go to hosmer elsewhere.

I would like the Stallings trade much more however if it meant they were just trying to bridge a year or 2 down the line for Campusano to take over.

The Marlins would easily not absorb 100% of Hosmer, and would be buying more than just Campusano. This is a Preston Wilson/Mike Hampton situation - absorb money for players/flex. I doubt Hosmer would ever play for the Marlins. No roster spot issue.

Also one reason why you do this is a SALARY FLOOR. It might be coming in CBA, so this is a huge opportunity to take on dead weight to load up on prospects.

SD wanted Alfaro just now right?

Alfaro and Bass (fuck them, take Bass too for salary deflection, minus $3 million)

for

Campusano, another OK prospect (maybe a lefty reliever type?), Eric Hosmer, and $30 million


This is the Marlins getting Campusano and whoever else, for Alfaro, Bass and $26m.

If Campusano turns into a five year 2+ WAR per season catcher, they doubled/tripled their value.

[lou]

I feel like we’ve been talking about this exact trade scenario on this board for years.

We have, including getting Wil Myers in the dump

[lou]

To ease Campusano in? Can DH him too. Stallings behind the plate most of the time and days off Campusano behind the plate

Yes. Campusano is for one, not ready and assuming no radical Super 2 changes, isn't coming up until the all star break for service time considerations.

Two year ease in, and maybe he becomes full time in 2024. Would be a great potential transition. Stallings is 32 opening day 2022 after all.

[Nick]

Not sure I agree that Campusano is not ready. .902 OPS at AAA last year, not sure what else you want him to do. I don't disagree though, that having Stallings would probably help him ease into the eventual starting role.

The question is, who do the Padres want in return? You would think they're still in win now mode, so Pablo would seem to make the most sense. You need the Padres to eat at least $20 million of Hosmer's contract to make it more palatable.

Pablo, Cooper, Alfaro
+
for

Hosmer and Ha-Seong Kim ($89 million over 4 years) and Luis Campusano + $40 Million

Have Campusano start 2 games a week at catcher, 1 game a week at DH. (Stallings C, Campusano at DH, Aguilar at 1st vs. lefties)

Aguilar, Hosmer and Lewin split the remaining 1B/DH ABs.

You try both Jazz and Kim in CF, and whichever guy looks better stays out there and the other goes to 2nd base.

[rmc523]

The Marlins would easily not absorb 100% of Hosmer, and would be buying more than just Campusano. This is a Preston Wilson/Mike Hampton situation - absorb money for players/flex. I doubt Hosmer would ever play for the Marlins. No roster spot issue.

Also one reason why you do this is a SALARY FLOOR. It might be coming in CBA, so this is a huge opportunity to take on dead weight to load up on prospects.

SD wanted Alfaro just now right?

Alfaro and Bass (fuck them, take Bass too for salary deflection, minus $3 million)

for

Campusano, another OK prospect (maybe a lefty reliever type?), Eric Hosmer, and $30 million


This is the Marlins getting Campusano and whoever else, for Alfaro, Bass and $26m.

If Campusano turns into a five year 2+ WAR per season catcher, they doubled/tripled their value.

Doing that, you'd still have your top prospects to go out and get a CF addition.

I'd still like them to sign a vet innings eater SP too.

[Nick]

The Marlins would easily not absorb 100% of Hosmer, and would be buying more than just Campusano. This is a Preston Wilson/Mike Hampton situation - absorb money for players/flex. I doubt Hosmer would ever play for the Marlins. No roster spot issue.

Also one reason why you do this is a SALARY FLOOR. It might be coming in CBA, so this is a huge opportunity to take on dead weight to load up on prospects.

SD wanted Alfaro just now right?

Alfaro and Bass (fuck them, take Bass too for salary deflection, minus $3 million)

for

Campusano, another OK prospect (maybe a lefty reliever type?), Eric Hosmer, and $30 million


This is the Marlins getting Campusano and whoever else, for Alfaro, Bass and $26m.

If Campusano turns into a five year 2+ WAR per season catcher, they doubled/tripled their value.

I highly doubt the Padres are that desperate to get rid of $60 million over 4 years. You're giving up Campusano and not helping your team at all in 2022. I just can't see it.

[lou]

I highly doubt the Padres are that desperate to get rid of $60 million over 4 years. You're giving up Campusano and not helping your team at all in 2022. I just can't see it.

I think the idea is, the Marlins would absorb what they are going to absorb a bit front loaded over the 4, and that gives the Padres salary right now to open up for whoever (Chris Taylor themselves?). That's the help.

[rmc523]

I highly doubt the Padres are that desperate to get rid of $60 million over 4 years. You're giving up Campusano and not helping your team at all in 2022. I just can't see it.

They have several huge contracts on the books, though, and might be wanting to save some money.