Selling Time: Marlins Trade Deadline Discussion

[Valid]

It's the same offense we've had - Hanley Ramirez.

In other words, it's very similar to the crap we've experienced all year.

Well, minus Stanton, too. That's a pretty huge thing.

[emkayseven]

we nabbed 3 of Callis's top 10 prospects traded in July.

CHICAGO—Maybe last July served as a cautionary tale.

The Giants sent righthander Zack Wheeler, the No. 6 choice in 2009, to the Mets for Carlos Beltran. The Indians dispatched Drew Pomeranz, the No. 5 selection in 2010, to the Rockies in a four-player package for Ubaldo Jimenez. Both clubs failed to make the playoffs and have buyer's remorse that will linger for a while.

Maybe teams were less willing to give up prized prospects now that the new Collective Bargaining Agreement provides no compensation for free agents who depart in the same season they were traded.

Maybe rising major league salaries make young talent more of a bargain than ever.

Whatever the reason, the quality of prospects who changed addresses in July was underwhelming. The stock of the best prospect traded has taken a downturn. The third-best won't even pitch this season after having Tommy John surgery in March.

Here's how we stack up the 10 best prospects dealt in the month before the July 31 deadline for trades without waivers:

1. Jacob Turner, rhp, Marlins. Detroit gave Turner a $4.7 million contract as the No. 9 overall pick in 2009, then gave him just six big league starts over two seasons before sending him, catcher Rob Brantly, lefthander Brian Flynn to the Marlins for Anibal Sanchez, Omar Infante and a swap of competitive-balance lottery picks. Turner hasn't hit 93-95 mph as often or missed as many bats this year as he had in the past, leading to concern that he's headed down the same path Rick Porcello took with the Tigers. He throws strikes and shows the makings of three possible plus pitches, so there's still hope he can become a No. 2 starter.

2. Jean Segura, ss, Brewers. Milwaukee hopes that Segura, the headliner in the Zack Greinke trade with the Angels, can fill the shortstop void created when it sent Alcides Escobar to the Royals to get Greinke in December 2010. Segura isn't especially rangy at shortstop but gets the job done, and he has plenty of offensive upside with his average power and plus speed.

3. Arodys Vizcaino, rhp, Cubs. Chicago has very little advanced young pitching, so it was willing to take the sidelined Vizcaino and throw-in Jaye Chapman from the Braves in exchange for Paul Maholm and Reed Johnson. Considered untouchable a year ago, Vizcaino had a mid-90s fastball and sharp curveball before blowing out his elbow this spring. If he's not durable enough to start, he has the stuff to close.

4. Tommy Joseph, c, Phillies. After giving up three quality youngsters (Jonathan Singleton, Jarred Cosart, Domingo Santana) to get Hunter Pence from the Astros last July, the Phillies got just one back (Joseph, along with Nate Schierholtz and righthander Seth Rosin) when they spun Pence to San Francisco. One of the game's top catching prospects, Joseph has power to all fields and has cleaned up his defense in three years as a pro.

5. Christian Villanueva, 3b, Cubs. For Ryan Dempster, Chicago got Villanueva and righthander Kyle Hendricks from the Rangers. Stuck behind Adrian Beltre and Mike Olt in Texas, Villanueva has a broad base of tools: solid bat, potential average power, average baserunning, soft hands, strong arm.

6. Rob Brantly, c, Marlins. Though Brantly doesn't have a tool that jumps out and was blocked by Alex Avila in Detroit, he can start behind the plate in the major leagues. With his line-drive bat and average catch-and-throw skills, he could take over in Miami at some point in 2013.

7. Johnny Hellweg, rhp, Brewers. Hellweg intimidates hitters with his 6-foot-9 frame, 94-96 mph fastball and hard curveball. He's still figuring out how to repeat his delivery and control his pitches, and his ability to do so will determine whether his future is in the rotation or bullpen.

8. Ethan Martin, rhp, Phillies. The first high school pitcher drafted (15th overall) in 2008, Martin looked like a lost cause while posting a 6.68 ERA in high Class A in 2010-11. He has looked like a different pitcher since moving to Double-A last June, working at 92-97 mph and throwing more strikes, though he's probably destined for the bullpen. Philadelphia picked up him and Josh Lindblom for Shane Victorino.

9. Ariel Pena, rhp, Brewers. The third piece of the Greinke package, Pena is better than he showed during a horrific Futures Game appearance (eight runs in one-third of an inning). He has a low-90s fastball, hard slider and average command, and he may have a better chance to start than Hellweg.

10. Zack Cox, 3b, Marlins. The Cardinals gave Cox a $3.2 million contract after taking him 25th overall in 2010, when scouts considered him the best pure hitter in the draft. David Freese's emergence and Cox' horrible start this year in Triple-A led St. Louis to give him away for Edward Mujica. Though Cox has lost some luster, he still has the short stroke, bat-on-ball skills and strength to hit for a solid average and at least average power.

http://ht.ly/cEdn9

[lilchris11]

Ken on Mlb network said there was a trade proposal tgat would have sent buck and bell to mets for jason bay........ It could still happen doubt they get clamied on waviers

[Big Z]

Would love to see the details of this deal in terms of $

[TheMendozaLine]

...

[TheMendozaLine]

The Marlins took a curious approach in trying to move Lee to the 15 teams that could acquire him without restriction under his limited no-trade clause.

The Houston Astros covered virtually all of the approximately $9 million that Lee was due when they sent him to the Marlins on July 4, with Miami responsible for only a prorated portion of the minimum salary.

But the Marlins, according to one club that spoke with them, actually wanted as much as $2.5 million in a trade for Lee — even though they basically weren’t paying him anything.

Needless to say, the discussions failed to progress.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/m...hn-buck-080112

[emkayseven]

According to Rosenthal the Marlins had the balls to ask for $2.5 million for Carlos Lee even though they're paying him nothing

But the Marlins, according to one club that spoke with them, actually wanted as much as $2.5 million in a trade for Lee — even though they basically weren’t paying him anything.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/m...hn-buck-080112

[Bobbob1313]

deja vu

[emkayseven]

damn autorefresh not working

[lou]

Would love to see the details of this deal in terms of $

Very Rough

Bay makes around $24 million now end of 2013. Serious, Serious LOL. $19 million total next year with his option buyout.

Bell makes roughly $22 now end of deal, Buck roughly $8 million.

I am being very roundball for what they are owed till end of season.

Overall, that move saves roughly $6 million bucks for the Marlins straight up. However, nearly all of that would be payable in 2013, instead of Bell having $10 million lingering in 2014. That's pretty interesting to me.

It would basically do this

2012 - Marlins payroll up $1.5 million (Bay 2012 $5 million minus Bell/Buck $3.5)
2013 - Marlins payroll up $2.5 million (Bay 2013 $19 million minus Bell/Buck $16.5 million)
2014 - Marlins payroll down $10 million (Bell off books)
= + $6 million marlins

It's a weird way to save rough estimated $6 million bucks, as I think Buck and Bell will be much more productive (they can't be this bad again and Bay is really terrible. Worse than both of them), but if the idea is clear out for 2014, it's a really great idea.

Of course, they will have to continue to spend money on free agents to make it reasonable to make this kind of room to clear space for 2014.
--------------------
Also, I want to say that if they want to save more than $6 million, they offer anybody Heath Bell + anything under $14 million in cash. Someone is taking Heath Bell for some number under $14 million (which would be $3 million a year in 2013/2014), and that saves more money.

Meaning this whole Jason Bay thing is idiotic if the sole purpose is to save money. It could be accomplished much easier and not having Jason Bay on the team

[MiamiHomer]

Samson interview with LeBatard yesterday was absolute gold at the end. It's hard to explain without having you listen to it and unfortunately they don't have a link to it. The gist of it is basically Samson makes a sarcastic comment about LeBatard being "good at his job" and then apparently hanging up and then LeBatard says I wish I could say the same about you but then Samson comes back since he never did hang up and just goes off on LeBatard all the while they are cracking up once they realized Samson was still there. Samson sounded legitimately pissed and it was so great. Only way to here it right now is to listen to the podcast for yesterday's show on the 790 site. Anyone else here it?

[emkayseven]

Damn that sounds awesome

[MiamiHomer]

http://www.790theticket.com/podcasts.aspx

There's the link to the podcasts, you can listen to the latest episode on there rather than having to download it. The interview is done in the latter portion of the show. You just need to search for it a bit.

[Big Z]

When do the waivers begin?

[tjfla]

To add to the NY offer,it actually wasn't for Bay. The Mets and Blue Jays asked about Buck and were both told he is available but we won't pay a dime. The Mets then said have any interest in Bay since u can prolly u need an OF which we responded if u wanna take Bell's contract we can talk

In other words doubt Bay and Bell would be in a deal but if the Mets are willing to take all of Buck's salary OR claim him he is gone.

As for Carlos they had actually 2 deals for him. The $ thing was about us wanting back the cash we had to pay him. They thought they had him dealt to Pitt for the comp pick which he said NO(we said Gaby and they said YES thank god) then like Stark said we had a deal worked out with the Yankees for 2 pitching prospects.He said NO which made NYY pick up McGhee instead

We also had a deal for Zambrano with Washington but then they changed mind and decided just to use Lannan

Don't be surprised tho if u don't see-Zambrano,Lee,and Buck around at the end of the season
--------------------
Also hearing the qualifying offer is gonna be like 13 mil or so. This means that a team has to offer atleast a 1 yr/13mil deal in order to get a Comp Pick. Those picks are before the Lottery Comp Picks,which we got #2
--------------------

Very Rough

Bay makes around $24 million now end of 2013. Serious, Serious LOL. $19 million total next year with his option buyout.

Bell makes roughly $22 now end of deal, Buck roughly $8 million.

I am being very roundball for what they are owed till end of season.

Overall, that move saves roughly $6 million bucks for the Marlins straight up. However, nearly all of that would be payable in 2013, instead of Bell having $10 million lingering in 2014. That's pretty interesting to me.

It would basically do this

2012 - Marlins payroll up $1.5 million (Bay 2012 $5 million minus Bell/Buck $3.5)
2013 - Marlins payroll up $2.5 million (Bay 2013 $19 million minus Bell/Buck $16.5 million)
2014 - Marlins payroll down $10 million (Bell off books)
= + $6 million marlins

It's a weird way to save rough estimated $6 million bucks, as I think Buck and Bell will be much more productive (they can't be this bad again and Bay is really terrible. Worse than both of them), but if the idea is clear out for 2014, it's a really great idea.

Of course, they will have to continue to spend money on free agents to make it reasonable to make this kind of room to clear space for 2014.
--------------------
Also, I want to say that if they want to save more than $6 million, they offer anybody Heath Bell + anything under $14 million in cash. Someone is taking Heath Bell for some number under $14 million (which would be $3 million a year in 2013/2014), and that saves more money.

Meaning this whole Jason Bay thing is idiotic if the sole purpose is to save money. It could be accomplished much easier and not having Jason Bay on the team

Exactly what they are trying to do,Samson/Loria/Beinfest won't say it but we are actually playing for 2014 with next year been another "rebuild". They want guys who in 2014 will be ready to go which is why they were not to motivated to move guys who's contract expire after 2013,they would love to move JJ,Buck,Bell but no big issue right now. Also just to prove that they are playing for 2014,they even had discussions with a few teams about Bell that would have us paying for the rest of this and next year's salary(other team picking up 2014)for a prospect

The only guys we really wanna keep that are on the team now are Stanton,Reyes,Boner,LoMo,Buehrle,Cishek, and the young guys we just got