Offense Continues to Be Non-existent; Marlins Lose 4th in a Row Against Mets 5-1

[Swifty]

If you're going with the appeal to authority argument, then why does he get blamed for Miller and Maybin missing when everyone thought they would be fantastic players?

Who's everyone? Baseball America and Ramp and lou?

I don't think everyone was sold on Miller. I think there were big time concerns with him, his delivery and his makeup.

I'd also say that you should be careful there since I'm pretty sure you subscribe to the TNSTAPP logic (which I do, too).

[Erick]

You're doing this based on baseball america's ranking, not the collective mindset of all 30 GM's/front offices. It's hard to make the collective leap you're making and say everyone expected them to succeed. It's also hard to simply look at where they were drafted and say they were inevitable stars simply by virtue of their draft position.

Weren't you the guy who called me the worst the other day? I'd expect better from you.

I'm going by Baseball America because it's about all we have to work with. Scouts said plenty of things then too that were mostly positive.

I can't judge the deal based on "the collective mindset of all 30 GM's/front offices" because I don't know what they thought at the time. It's silly to bring that up considering you don't know either.

To be fair, Detroit must have thought plenty of them considering it took Miguel Cabrera for Detroit to give those guys up. It's not as if they traded those guys for a league-average player.

If anything, you should be bashing Beinfest for trading Maybin and getting two middle relievers in return.

[tr305]

"Erick"

[HUGG]

Josh Johnson, Giancarlo Stanton, Logan Morrison, Gaby Sanchez, Steve Cishek, Chris Coghlan and Brett Hayes were all drafted and developed by the Marlins. That's 7 out of the 25 man roster.

Anibal Sanchez, Hanley Ramirez, Mike Dunn and Ricky Nolasco were all acquired before they had done a thing in the majors.

Emilio Bonifacio had 213 career PA when they acquired him, so he can basically go in that above group as well.

I mean, I feel like that's pretty good evaluation isn't it?

[Ramp]

I will read the thread following my post, so apologies if anything I say has already been said.

Mark Buerhle was very good tonight. Unfortunately, David Wright was ready for him in his third at bat and he smoked that ball out of the park.

Mike Dunn needs to get his shit together. I know that he's always going to be a high whip guy, but you have to throw strikes early in the count. Obviously I'm not breaking news to anyone and we all know this, but it's beyond frustrating to see a guy come out of the bullpen and go right to 2-0.

If it wasn't for Omar Infante right now, this team would be in even bigger doo doo. The top of the order (well pretty much everyone save Omar and LoMo) are struggling and it sucks to watch. Most of us see the small sample size of 20 games or so and know they'll turn it around, but we all are frustrated.

I see this thread is upto 3 pages already, so I assume tr305 made a comment about Jose Reyes or Giancarlo and everyone bit hook, line and sinker. I shall read the thread now.

[Madman81]

You won't see the direction this thread turned coming

[HUGG]

Yeah, that post read like a child wrote it before Bambi died.

[Mainge]

Seriously, fire Jeff Urgella (Urgy if you will).

[Namaste]

What GM goes on the hot seat after 17 games?


The Orioles are 11-7.

LOL.

[Ramp]

wow... did not see this happening

apologies tr305

[Swifty]

Not talking about the trade as a whole. I'm talking about Maybin and Miller specifically. You're saying it's impossible for Lomo to have been identified as a good player, but those two should have been identified as busts. I'm saying that's pretty dumb. If you're going to blame Beinfest for not seeing that they weren't good, you can't say "But he didn't really know about Lomo because I said so because fuck Beinfest."

You are to Beinfest what MH is to Ireland, and I don't feel strongly about Beinfest like I do Ireland, so I'm not going to bother anymore.

But that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is on the "big time" players, he's been pretty consistently wrong. The guys getting the largest signing bonuses, the guys getting traded for under the assumption that they're the new building blocks, guys getting signed to what should be franchise altering money (at least for us, and this doesn't include Reyes/Buehrle/Bell).

Since Beinfest has taken over, he's traded 2 super-duper stars in Beckett and Cabrera, he's traded 4 all-stars in Delgado, Castillo, Lo Duca and Pierre. This is in a period of 9 years. From all those moves, we have gotten Hanley, Anibal and Nolasco. That's a worse return than the '97/'98 "firesale era", which at least got us Burnett, Wilson, Lee, Lowell and Penny.

He's extended Castillo, Lowell, Nolasco, Hanley, Johnson and signed Buck, Leiter and Delgado. This ignores the lower level guys like Jorge Julio (bad) and Todd Jones (good) and Armando Benitez(good). It also ignores failing to extend guys (like Cabrera) and waiting too long on others (like Hanley and JJ). For the most part, it's OK, probably his best list, and even then I don't think it's an overwhelming success.

My point is that, for the most part, he's been substandard. At his best, he's slightly below average. My question is, based on this, why does he have such amazing job security, especially with so many scapegoats year after year?

[Namaste]

The Angels are 6-12.

LOL.

[Ramp]

Being 7-10 there is 0 reason for Beinfest to be on the hot seat, but if the team wins 70 games this year, I have no problem with him being removed. I have never been a fan of Beinfest, but he should get to see what his baby can do.

[Madman81]

Fire Pujols

[tr305]

Only contract worse than Buck's and Reyes, is Pujols.