Bullpen Masterful As Marlins Take Series in Atlanta, 6-5

[TealMonster08]

The word cool was not my word; I was simply quoting the word you used to describe the catch.

And I, personally, wouldn't have criticized Coghlan had he not come up with that catch. I don't criticize players unless it's a routine play (like Hanley's airmails to 1B).

And just as your eyes tell you that that was a routine play, my eyes tell me otherwise. And there's really zero proof to prove that that play was routine. Again, eyes are not proof, on such things.

All we know is that Coghlan had to dive for the ball. We don't know that any decent CF'er makes the play standing up; there is no proof for that.
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Really? Prove it.

I dont think it was not cool. But I dont think I think it was as cool as you think it was.

If you wouldnt have criticized him, then you are an idiot. He should make that catch 95 times out of 100.

Your eyes suck. Proof in pudding.

We know Coghlan dove. We dont know he had to dive. That is a mistake you are making.

[Mainge]

And I think you're rather retarded. Guess we're all entitled to an opinion, I suppose. So yeah, fuck it.

Sounds good.

[Todd]

Why because your eyes told you that? Perhaps your eyes are deceiving you?

Considering Jim Edmonds was a very good CF'er throughout his career, bringing him up in this thread is dumb.

And no one's really going to win this argument, anyway, so I'll just stop. Tell me when you have actual proof that he really didn't have to dive for that ball. And the actual proof can't be "OMGZ MY EYES TOLD ME."

Please. He dove on a hard hit ball with the bases loaded and made the catch. That's all we know. It's not as if he didn't have to run to get to that ball before diving, either.

I guess you won't be satisfied with a CF'er, unless we get Michael Bourn.

I watched Edmonds for several years while he played in St. Louis. He had a knack for jogging after balls and sprinting at the last second so he could dive. On balls that would be routine to little leaguers. Edmonds was a good CF, granted, but he was also a showman. Hell, even fans in St. Louis who are about as accepting of anything as any fanbase you will ever come across got tired of it.

[Mainge]

And I think you're rather retarded. Guess we're all entitled to an opinion, I suppose. So yeah, fuck it.

For the record, I don't think you're retarded. I think you like to argue just to do so.

[Erick]

Please answer my questions.

1) Have you realized yet that you quoted me as saying the opposite of what I said?

2) What kind of proof would suffice for you? What are you actually looking for?

1) My bad.

2) I don't know. I'm not the one who said that any decent CF'er makes that catch standing up. If you're one of those saying that, find a way to prove it and make your argument legit. Until that's done, it's just an opinion. I can easily say that I've seen plenty of decent CF'ers dive for that ball, and my opinion would be just as valid as yours.

I know Coghlan had to dive for the ball; that, I know. If I knew, for sure, that Coghlan had a track record of being a below average CF'er, I might even consider the opposing argument to be true. But there's not even statistical proof for that yet.

So, basically, everyone's just discrediting the catch because it's Chris Coghlan. And the only, uh, proof is that Jim Edmonds used to do that, too. My response to that is that Jim Edmonds was pretty damn good. Can you at least come up with a below average defensive player who consistently made plays like that to make his plays look better? Because when you tell me Jim Edmonds, statistics tell me that he was consistently well above average, throughout the majority of his long career.
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I dont think it was not cool. But I dont think I think it was as cool as you think it was.

If you wouldnt have criticized him, then you are an idiot. He should make that catch 95 times out of 100.

Your eyes suck. Proof in pudding.

We know Coghlan dove. We dont know he had to dive. That is a mistake you are making.

Uh, ok. Wouldn't everyone else be making the same mistake then?

[Ramp]

You don't know for sure that he had to dive for it. You know for sure that he did dive for it.

[Beef]

Nobody has discredited the catch just because it was Chris Coghlan.

You are having a really hard time understand things.

[TealMonster08]

1) My bad.

2) I don't know. I'm not the one who said that any decent CF'er makes that catch standing up. If you're one of those saying that, find a way to prove it and make your argument legit. Until that's done, it's just an opinion. I can easily say that I've seen plenty of decent CF'ers dive for that ball, and my opinion would be just as valid as yours.

I know Coghlan had to dive for the ball; that, I know. If I knew, for sure, that Coghlan had a track record of being a below average CF'er, I might even consider the opposing argument to be true. But there's not even statistical proof for that yet.

So, basically, everyone's just discrediting the catch because it's Chris Coghlan. And the only, uh, proof is that Jim Edmonds used to do that, too. My response to that is that Jim Edmonds was pretty damn good. Can you at least come up with a below average defensive player who consistently made plays like that to make his plays look better? Because when you tell me Jim Edmonds, statistics tell me that he was consistently well above average, throughout the majority of his long career.
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Uh, ok. Wouldn't everyone else be making the same mistake then?

I dont get it. Everyone is saying he probably didnt have to dive.

Why dont you need proof?

Are your eyes that much better than all of our eyes?

[Erick]

I'm willing to accept that your eyes fail you. I suggest Lasik surgery. In the event that after improving your vision, you still somehow maintain your idiotic and retarded beliefs regarding this catch, get back at me and we can venture down the brain surgery road

Yes. Who needs further evidence when YOUR eyes are so awesome?
I wish someone would've blessed me with your eyes, Lord eyes.
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You don't know for sure that he had to dive for it. You know for sure that he did dive for it.

And no one on here knows for sure that he didn't have to dive for it, yet some of those people are easily saying that any decent CF'er would've made that catch standing up.

Works both ways, doesn't it?

[Mainge]

I wish I had Madmans eyes. College is way easier to pay for when you're a 2x All-State OFer.

[FishFanInPA]

This is a fun discussion to have after taking 2 of 3 from Atlanta.

[Party]

I checked Pisani's defensive metrics site.

The software gave the play a 3.4 HBT on its difficulty 1-5 scale. CC's positioning/route/catch was given a score of 2.7 LGBT. The average ML CF receives a 4.1 on a similar play. So yes, the average CF doesn't need to dive on that.

[Beef]

Yes. Who needs further evidence when YOUR eyes are so awesome?
I wish someone would've blessed me with your eyes, Lord eyes.
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And no one on here knows for sure that he didn't have to dive for it, yet some of those people are easily saying that any decent CF'er would've made that catch standing up.

So are you saying that you don't know that he had to dive for it?

Whether he had to dive for it or not really doesn't matter in regards to the original conversation.

It only matters now because what you are saying is illogical.

[Ramp]

I checked Pisani's defensive metrics site.

The software gave the play a 3.4 HBT on its difficulty 1-5 scale. CC's positioning/route/catch was given a score of 2.7 LGBT. The average ML CF receives a 4.1 on a similar play. So yes, the average CF doesn't need to dive on that.

holy crap.

[lou]

So now things have kind of changed to the bullpen should have blown it but a guy that you thought would not be able to make a play every CFer should make did make a play that every CFer should make, so we all need to spit out the bullpen's dick and take Coghlan's?

No but you guys are being drama queens and are going to the extent of arguing the use of adjectives.

That was an awesome play as a play itself, and even more so because of the moment. If that play isn't made, Marlins lose and everyone is bitching at the bullpen instead of praising them. No one is blaming Coghlan for missing a diving catch, and I can't believe some of you are going to the extent that he didn't have to dive. Maybe he gets a better jump on it? Maybe he is positioned in the outfield and shading more to where he wouldn't need to jump for it? But christ, he needed to jump for it to make that play. It's that easy. I guarantee you massive bitching "same old shit as last year" and no one blames Coghlan for that one.

I thought it was an awesome catch for anyone. Even more so for Coghlan. Maybe my standards are lower than yours. Oh well. I guess it's my problem I'm impressed with game saving bases loaded diving catches? So be it.