Hanley Ramirez 2011: Knocking on .250's Door

[Mainge]

I didn't say you said I said he did.

[CrimsonCane]

Well regardless, I don't have a problem about someone calling out Hanley if he's not where he needs to be in pregame.

I take issue with LoMo trying to argue that Hanley being late for warmups is the cause for his struggles.

First, the guy has been a MLB player for half a season. It's not his place. Second, do you think Hanley was more diligent and on time back when he was OPSing .954?

[MiamiHomer]

MIAMI GARDENS — Hanley Ramirez was back in the Marlins' lineup Tuesday night, and batting cleanup for the first time since he was a Little Leaguer.

Good stuff, that, in the wake of his benching Monday night for being late to a team meeting - Ramirez says he wasn't - on manager Jack McKeon's second-time-around first day on the job.

It's another blemish on the Ramirez behavioral résumé.

And the emerging question is this: Would the Marlins be better off without him if they could get what they consider fair value in a deal?

Hardly did Marlins President of Baseball Operations Larry Beinfest suggest such a thing was out of the question.

"Oh, I'm not going to speculate on anything like that." Beinfest said. "You know what? We do say that some players are more or less likely to be traded than others, but we don't ever talk about anybody specific."

Does that mean Ramirez is in the "more" or "less" likely category?

"We'll leave that up to you guys," Beinfest said.

So, in review, Beinfest could have said the Marlins are less likely to trade Ramirez than most players, but didn't.

Put me down for more likely if, in fact, the Marlins can satisfy themselves with, say, receiving a fistful of prospects for Ramirez, who's a star enduring a horrible season.

Put me down for the addition-by-subtraction philosophy.

Ramirez forever has been unable or unwilling to marry his physical skills to any sense of emotional consistency. He too often has been aloof when going well (.342 batting average, 24 home runs and 106 RBI two years ago) and sullen otherwise.

To be fair, Ramirez, though never particularly well-liked or deeply respected inside the clubhouse, had been handling himself well despite his on-field struggles this season until Monday.

"I wasn't late," Ramirez insisted. "I wasn't late, because stretch is at 4:30 and I was there before 4:30. People want to start something. I wasn't late."

But was he supposed to be in the clubhouse for McKeon's 3:30 p.m. meeting?

"Some guys come in early. They come in at 3," Ramirez said. "I come in at 3:30 every day. And nobody (told me)."

One teammate, however, said everyone was aware of the meeting time. And a report indicated that Logan Morrison called out Ramirez in front of the team.

And there was the fact that McKeon didn't put Ramirez in the lineup.

"I think he wants to be a leader, but doesn't know how," a Marlins source said of Ramirez.

McKeon patted Ramirez on the back, slid an arm around his waist and had an extended conversation with him during batting practice Tuesday afternoon.

"Everything's fine," McKeon said. "I'm not angry about anything. I put him in the cleanup spot because he's a big man for us, so be a big man. We're looking for somebody to give us a jump-start, and he can do it."

That hasn't been the case this season, though. There are legitimate concerns about whether Ramirez, who carried a .200 batting average into Tuesday night, is worth the constant risk of off-field turmoil if he isn't producing big-man statistics. It was just last season when then-Marlins manager Fredi Gonzalez benched Ramirez for loafing.

Might the woebegone Marlins benefit from ridding themselves of a 27-year-old shortstop with superstar potential?

Ramirez is in the middle of a six-year, $70 million contract that is heavily back-loaded with approximately two-thirds of the money due across the final three seasons of the deal. It was Beinfest who once said the agreement "is about 2012, 2013 and 2014."

The pertinent point is that the Marlins are scheduled to be in their new Little Havana digs next season.

The clear message at the time of the signing was a linking of Ramirez to the stadium and to a blueprint for the franchise's future.

Now?

It's possible the Marlins are becoming increasingly less enamored of Ramirez, and therefore decline to say he's among their players in the "less likely" trade pool. It's safe to assume there would be plenty of interest should he be made available on the market.

What are the chances Ramirez will be with the Marlins on opening day next year?

It probably depends on how well he plays - and behaves - the remainder of this season.

But nobody should blame the Marlins if they decide Ramirez isn't worth the headaches and can gather satisfactory goods in return if they trade him.

Florida Marlins might be better off without Hanley Ramirez

woo hoo

[Ramp]

who the fuck is Greg Stoda

[CrimsonCane]

Someone who gets paid to publish moronic opinions apparently.

[Mainge]

I take issue with LoMo trying to argue that Hanley being late for warmups is the cause for his struggles.

First, the guy has been a MLB player for half a season. It's not his place. Second, do you think Hanley was more diligent and on time back when he was OPSing .954?

I don't see why it's not his place. Yeah, he's wet behind the ears but he's been one of the most productive players on this team and he and whoever else has the right to call out someone who isn't pulling their weight.

I also don't think he literally is saying that's the reason Hanley is struggling. Rather, Hanley is struggling mightily and he can't even get to pregames on time.

[CrimsonCane]

I don't see why it's not his place. Yeah, he's wet behind the ears but he's been one of the most productive players on this team and he and whoever else has the right to call out someone who isn't pulling their weight.

I also don't think he literally is saying that's the reason Hanley is struggling. Rather, Hanley is struggling mightily and he can't even get to pregames on time.

My objection stems from the fact that Hanley is likely doing exactly the same things that he was doing back when he was the best shortstop in baseball. When I said it wasn't his place I wasn't implying that Hanley had seniority of anything like that, I meant that Logan has not been with this team long enough to know that Hanley has probably been acting like this since he was a rookie and it's worked out fine for him. So, it's incredibly presumptuous to be like, "Hey, start working harder. You're lazy and that's why you're still in this slump" when you have no earthly idea what's going on in Hanley's mind AND he doesn't have the requisite time spent on this team to be able to compare Hanley's productive seasons with this current slump.

[Mainge]

I understand what you're saying but I don't think Logan was in the wrong this instance. Having your own routine is one thing but tardiness or whatever is entirety another.

I also believe that this isn't the only instance of Hanley not dedicating himself to what needs to be done in preparation. Although I have no evidence to prove it, I suspect this was just the boiling point for LoMo, and that we have a long list of things like this that Hanley has done.

I have no idea, though. Just suspicion.

[Swifty]

My problem is Logan's been pure trash for about a month. Probably not the time to go around calling guys out. Then again, the longer you allow Helms around these guys, the less production matters for "leadership" entitlement.

[Erick]

It's Helms fault.

[Big Z]

Buster Olney-

There is sentiment within FLA organization that Marlins would be better off trading Hanley Ramirez--but also perception that Loria loves him

Marlins in weird place with Hanley. He is best-known player as they move into new park. But within clubhouse, anything other than front man

And the Marlins have a strange dynamic: highly respected baseball ops/organizational staffers... But spend no money and the Loria Factor

By the way:a great concern among some rival evaluators is that Hanley is too big now to be effective SS; sentiment is he needs to streamline

[CrimsonCane]

Buster Olney- There is sentiment within FLA organization that Marlins would be better off trading Hanley Ramirez.

Whoever has that sentiment deserves to be fired.

[flamarlins3]

I don't care how poorly he's doing. Short of him refusing to play and demanding a trade it would be PR suicide for this team to trade Hanley going into the new stadium. The average fan. "Same ole Marlins" "Tax Payers paid for the new stadium and they dump payroll blah blah blah" Not that Marlins have really cared about that in past, but I'm not sure its going to be as easy for them to get away with it.

Stating the obvious here, but the amount of people suggesting a trade is insane.

[Ramp]

There's absolutely no way we can go into the 2012 season without Hanley. Like CC said, anyone in the organization who believes this should be fired instantly.

Reminds me of a banner at the US soccer game the other night (Love the US, Hate the Fed)..... in this case Love the Fish, Hate the Org

[Swifty]

Honestly, they trade Hanley, I'm done.