Sell! Sell! Sell! Discussion

[Todd]

They werent going to give Castillo away either and look what they ended up with. And then there is the "package" for Hammer and Olsen. They basically traded Cabs and D-Train for Maybin, Miller, and Badenhop straight up as EDLC, Trahern, and Rabello just sucked to begin with. I prefer to tread the pessimistic side of things for the time being.

[HUGG]

I prefer to tread the pessimistic side of things for the time being.

This is the least surprising statement in the history of this forum.

[Jay]

They werent going to give Castillo away either and look what they ended up with. And then there is the "package" for Hammer and Olsen. They basically traded Cabs and D-Train for Maybin, Miller, and Badenhop straight up as EDLC, Trahern, and Rabello just sucked to begin with. I prefer to tread the pessimistic side of things for the time being.

Bowyer was suppose to be the closer of the future. How was the FO suppose to know he would blow out his arm?

The Hammer and Olsen package wasn't going to get much better. Who knew PJ Dean would stop playing?

Cabs and D-Train move was the best package on the table. EDLC and Trahern were ranked fairly high in the Tigers system. Rabello was a throw in and the team needed a catcher.

You can't look at these trades and say they were horribly bad. Yeah they haven't turned out for the best but they weren't just take this major leaguer and his salary and give us a warm body and its a deal.

[Todd]

Most 8 year old girls who have never played above coach pitch would have been better options than Mike fucking Rabello.

[nny]

Bowyer was suppose to be the closer of the future. How was the FO suppose to know he would blow out his arm?

The Hammer and Olsen package wasn't going to get much better. Who knew PJ Dean would stop playing?

Cabs and D-Train move was the best package on the table. EDLC and Trahern were ranked fairly high in the Tigers system. Rabello was a throw in and the team needed a catcher.

You can't look at these trades and say they were horribly bad. Yeah they haven't turned out for the best but they weren't just take this major leaguer and his salary and give us a warm body and its a deal.

I do agree with you for the most part but:

Castillo was coming off a three year stretch where he was one of the best 2b's in baseball with an extremely team friendly contract. Yeah, he was old, so his decline over the last two years of his contract aren't surprising. But he was still an above average 2b and was good value in comparison to what he was making.

Let's look at it this way: At the end of the year, would you trade Jose Ceda for Brian Roberts/Placido Polanco/Orlando Hudson/ect (if they had a very team friendly 2 year contract like Castillo's)?

I certainly make that move and don't look back.

Secondly, I think they overvalued Emilio in the Hammer trade, and we likely could have gotten better elsewhere because of that. But PJ Dean being an asshole certainly doesn't help.

[Jay]

I do agree with you for the most part but:

Castillo was coming off a three year stretch where he was one of the best 2b's in baseball with an extremely team friendly contract. Yeah, he was old, so his decline over the last two years of his contract aren't surprising. But he was still an above average 2b and was good value in comparison to what he was making.

Let's look at it this way: At the end of the year, would you trade Jose Ceda for Brian Roberts/Placido Polanco/Orlando Hudson/ect (if they had a very team friendly 2 year contract like Castillo's)?

I certainly make that move and don't look back.

Secondly, I think they overvalued Emilio in the Hammer trade, and we likely could have gotten better elsewhere because of that. But PJ Dean being an asshole certainly doesn't help.

Yes the Castillo trade wasn't the best trade to begin with but if Bowyer and Tyler ended up being lights out relievers everyone would have said we made off with the better deal.

They probably did overvalue Emilio but when your trading a guy with his head up his ass and someone with back problems your not going to get many suitors and your not going to get fair value.

Ceda for a 2nd baseman would depend on whos playing 2nd and how shitty is the bullpen. If its a typical marlins pen where nothing is really set in place, I'd rather start Emilio or Barden then lose a potential late inning arm. But yes on a normal team you would make that trade 10 out of 10 times.

[lou]

Don't forget Willingham's chronic injury, and Olsen DID have a season long injury due to his abuse with the Marlins organization. Damaged goods don't really bring top value. The aftermath of Willingham is certainly disappointing, but I understand the trade.

Smolinski might turn out to be pretty good though. Hitting much better in June/July, and maybe he just needs a promotion next year to get out of the hell that is Jupiter.

[Miamarlin21]

I just had a horrible dream. We traded Cody and Ricky to Baltimore for all these prospects. I didn't know any of the prospects

[Ramp]

seems like a nightmare, not a dream

[wanks1212]

By Barry Jackson
bjackson@MiamiHerald.com

Marlins queries at the All-Star break:

• What will the Marlins do before the July 31 nonwaiver trade deadline?

Expect them to be receptive to dealing Jorge Cantu, Nate Robertson and potentially Cody Ross if they don't climb back in the race quickly. Some inside the Marlins prefer to keep Dan Uggla, but that's still being discussed because he could cost $10 million in 2011. Florida does not want to trade Ricky Nolasco.

But the Marlins -- seven games back in the wild-card race -- insist publicly they aren't yet ready to swap veterans for prospects because they want to see if they can get back in contention this month.

``We are still evaluating,'' Marlins president David Samson said, discussing no player specifically. ``If it is decided that this season will not end in a playoff berth, then it is a normal thing for any team to make roster changes to get ready for next season. There is no need for payroll to go down. We keep waiting for a run and still believe it's coming, but it never seems to come.

``We had high expectations, and they are reasonable given how long this team has been together.''

As of Monday, the Marlins had not received strong offers for Cantu (a looming free agent), Uggla or Ross (who will be arbitration eligible). Colorado is a possible suitor for Uggla and Cantu, and Atlanta reportedly has interest in Ross.

Who of those three could attract the most in a deal? We asked three scouts and got three different answers.

One said of Uggla: ``He can impact a lineup with his power. If he goes to an AL club to DH, he doesn't have to worry about defense.''

• What should Florida do with top first-base prospect Logan Morrison (.308, five homers, 33 RBI in 56 games at Triple A)?

With Gaby Sanchez thriving at first base, the Marlins are becoming more receptive to using Morrison in left field. That would require eventually moving Chris Coghlan to second or third base.

``Coghlan is a little below average at second but better than at third,'' Marlins manager Edwin Rodriguez said. ``But if you put him and keep him at second, he will become above average because he's such a worker and proud guy.''

The Marlins have tossed around the idea of a Morrison/ Cameron Maybin/ Mike Stanton outfield, with Coghlan moving to the infield. Maybin, hitting .357 at Triple A, is expected to miss another week with biceps bursitis, but Florida eventually wants to give him another extended look.

``The problem,'' one scout said, ``is if you put Coghlan at second, you have the same problem defensively that you do with Uggla, but with less power. The way you enhance good pitching is with good defense, and if you do that, you are not enhancing your defense. With Maybin, I don't think you give up on that kind of potential. The problem is he hits defensively.''

• Is there help on the farm? Beyond Morrison and Maybin, there's no other big league-ready, minor-league position player who projects as a starter, one scout said. Third baseman Matt Dominguez (.242 at Double A) isn't ready.

The Marlins have some decent starting pitching prospects at Double A, including Elih Villanueva (9-4, 2.21) and Tom Koehler (11-2, 3.04). Alex Sanabia was there before the Marlins promoted him. Andrew Miller (1-5, 6.02) has 37 walks in 49 innings, but his control has improved recently. At Triple A, Chris Volstad and Sean West (3-2, 3.38) remain in the plans.

Among bullpen prospects, two hard-throwing right-handers have emerged: Jose Ceda, acquired from the Cubs for Kevin Gregg in 2008, has 17 strikeouts and allowed one run in nine innings in Double A. Jhan Marinez has 58 strikeouts in 39 innings -- and allowing a .165 average -- at Single A and Double A. At Double A, lefty Dan Jennings (3-1, 2.53) isn't far off.

Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/07/1...#ixzz0tlvFCZ1D

Elih Villanueva and Tom Koehler are "decent starting pitching prospects"? Heh.

[Miamarlin21]

I think everyone is too harsh on Cogs' defense. I didn't think he was that bad

[Fish and Chips]

Edwin has been talking about shuffle the lineup, which might provide clues into future trades.

According to Frisaro's Twitter (http://twitter.com/JoeFrisaro), Edwin wants to move Stanton to the 6th hole, CC to 2nd hole. In that case, who bats leadoff? EVERYONE FAVORITE BONIFACIO!!!! So to make room for boni, the marlins would have to trade cantu, ross, and uggla, cause it would be stupid to play emilio over logan or maybin.

Seriously fuck this team, if they give emilio another extended period of starting.

Potential Lineup
1st Emilio 2B
2nd CC 3B
3rd Hanley SS
4th Sanchez 1B
5th Stanton RF
6th Morrison LF
7th Paulino C
8th Maybin CF
9th Pitcher

FUCK

[Ralph]

I think if Boni plays it's when Ross goes and Cams shoulder is still on the mend. No problem with that situation because no one else could play CF.

He shouldn't lead off though.

[Beef]

But you just said Stanton moves to the 6 hole, so yeah, that is a potential lineup because any group of 9 players is a potential lineup, but it doesnt jive all that well with what you posted.

[emkayseven]

that would be an ugly ass lineup

i fucking hate this team sometimes/most of the time