2011 Trade Deadline Discussion

[Erick]

He's a good player. He should not have been an All Star this year, and he's probably not worth two top 75 prospects.

You do realize that the only thing the Phillies care about is winning now, and they don't really care about the two top 75 prospects that they gave up, right?

Singleton doesn't play for the Phillies in the near future because they're invested in Ryan Howard's crap contract, anyway. Plus, it's been said that there are conflicting reports on Singleton, anyway, and that he's a difficult prospect to project.

And Cosart is a pitcher in A ball who probably wouldn't be the #39 prospect in baseball if they did a new list right now, considering his decling K rate this year.

And mentioning Pence's home/road splits make little sense to me, considering he was just traded to another hitter's park.
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Also, Hunter Pence was a .323/.364/.496 player before the All-Star Game, and every team needs a representative. That's why he made the team.

[nny]

Because he'll probably get better pitches to hit now with more protection in the lineup.

That's been proven false and, as a logic, is completely dumb. Why would the pitchers throw him better pitches, so he'll have a higher OPS aka do more damage? It's moronic. God that logic is moronic. i can't STAND it and I can't believe people actually believe it. "Let's see, this guy is in a shitty line up, so we're going to pitch to him in a way he will do the least damage. Now he's in a good line up, we're going to pitch to him in a way he'll do more damage." HOW THE FUCK DOES IT MAKE SENSE?!? I CAN'T GET OVER IT, FOR YEARS I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET OVER IT. WHY DO PEOPLE BELIEVE THIS?!?

And, more importantly, if it's actually true what does this say about players and coaches? Cuz the sad part is, IT COULD ACTUALLY BE TRUE

[Erick]

That's been proven false and, as a logic, is completely dumb. Why would the pitchers throw him better pitches, so he'll have a higher OPS aka do more damage? It's moronic. God that logic is moronic. i can't STAND it and I can't believe people actually believe it. "Let's see, this guy is in a shitty line up, so we're going to pitch to him in a way he will do the least damage. Now he's in a good line up, we're going to pitch to him in a way he'll do more damage." HOW THE FUCK DOES IT MAKE SENSE?!? I CAN'T GET OVER IT, FOR YEARS I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET OVER IT. WHY DO PEOPLE BELIEVE THIS?!?

And, more importantly, if it's actually true what does this say about players and coaches? Cuz the sad part is, IT COULD ACTUALLY BE TRUE

Well, if I have 1B open and I'm pitching to Hunter Pence with, say, Brett Wallace on-deck, I'm pitching around Hunter Pence.

If I'm pitching (and pretending to be right-handed in this scenario, for the sake of the scenario) to Hunter Pence with, say, a guy like Ryan Howard on-deck, I'm giving Hunter Pence better pitches to hit because I know that Ryan Howard can impact any given game with his power.

[HUGG]

SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
#tigers are calling up big-time pitching prospect jacob turner. active on other fronts as well. #tradedeadline

twoots

[nny]

Well, if I have 1B open and I'm pitching to Hunter Pence with, say, Brett Wallace on-deck, I'm pitching around Hunter Pence.

If I'm pitching (and pretending to be right-handed in this scenario, for the sake of the scenario) to Hunter Pence with, say, a guy like Ryan Howard on-deck, I'm giving Hunter Pence better pitches to hit because I know that Ryan Howard can impact any given game with his power.

So you're going to let Hunter Pence do more damage to you, ergo let Ryan Howard do more damage to you? HOW DOES IT MAKE SENSE?!

[Bobbob1313]

If you give Hunter Pence better pitches to hit he has a higher percentage of getting a hit and giving Ryan Howard a baserunner?

[Chewford]

Well Hunter Pence does roll a mange, so it makes sense that his damage per second (dps) would be quite high.

[Erick]

If you give Hunter Pence pitches to hit, you still have a chance of getting him out 60+% of the time because the pitcher always has the advantage.

A walk is a guaranteed baserunner for Ryan Howard.

It's not guaranteed that Hunter Pence gets on base even if you give him a better pitch to hit.

And if the hitter on-deck sucks, you have a better chance of getting the hitter on-deck out, so you're going to try and not let the opponents best hitter beat you in certain situations (in the Astros case, it was Pence).

Also, if Nny says this logic has already been proven to be flawed, there's a good chance I'm just talking out of my ass and using old school baseball "logic" here.

I would just think that better protection in the lineup = better pitches to hit.

If I'm facing the Astros lineup, the one guy who I'd somewhat fear in the middle of the order would've been Hunter Pence, so I would've given him not-so-good pitches to hit (moreso with men in scoring position) to see if he draws a walk or maybe gets himself out (which, in Hunter Pence case, is likely since he's not a patient hitter).

[Mainge]

Because he'll probably get better pitches to hit now with more protection in the lineup.

You believe that nonsense?

Okayyyy

[Bobbob1313]

If I'm facing the Astros lineup, the one guy who I'd somewhat fear in the middle of the order would've been Hunter Pence, so I would've given him not-so-good pitches to hit (moreso with men in scoring position) to see if he draws a walk or maybe gets himself out (which, in Hunter Pence case, is likely since he's not a patient hitter).

The bolded part refutes what you said before and shows why it's terrible logic.

[Mainge]

If you give Hunter Pence pitches to hit, you still have a chance of getting him out 60+% of the time because the pitcher always has the advantage.

A walk is a guaranteed baserunner for Ryan Howard.

It's not guaranteed that Hunter Pence gets on base even if you give him a better pitch to hit.

And if the hitter on-deck sucks, you have a better chance of getting the hitter on-deck out, so you're going to try and not let the opponents best hitter beat you in certain situations (in the Astros case, it was Pence).

Also, if Nny says this logic has already been proven to be flawed, there's a good chance I'm just talking out of my ass and using old school baseball "logic" here.

I would just think that better protection in the lineup = better pitches to hit.

If I'm facing the Astros lineup, the one guy who I'd somewhat fear in the middle of the order would've been Hunter Pence, so I would've given him not-so-good pitches to hit (moreso with men in scoring position) to see if he draws a walk or maybe gets himself out (which, in Hunter Pence case, is likely since he's not a patient hitter).

Coaches tend to always pitch to a hitters weaknesses. If a slider down and in has been effective against him in the past, that's what he's getting, regardless of who's behind him (sans pitcher). If lineup protection actually worked, we'd have Mike in front of Hanley, and no one would dare spin anything up there.

I think the flaw in your logic, is you're really underestimating how good a hitter like Hunter Pence would be if he saw a lot of cock high fastballs. He'd definitely hit higher than that .400 you posted. Somewhere above .470+, which is well beyond his .356 OBP he has now.

[MiamiHomer]

Tigers get Pauley and Fister from Seattle. Ubaldo sweepstakes heating up.
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Brewers get Jerry Hairston.

[THE_REAL_MIBS]

Couple notes of interest

Ken_Rosenthal: Source: Interest in #Padres' Adams continues to rise. Pads still need to be compelled to move him. #tradedeadline #MLB

Buster_ESPN: One executive on possible Jason Giambi/Phillies deal: "If they don't make the trade now, no way he gets through waivers to them." #trades

Buster_ESPN: Dodgers have not talked with the Yankees about Hiroki Kuroda recently. Big gap in views of two sides on trade value of the pitcher. #trades

Ken_Rosenthal: Source: #Rangers would only move Holland for Thornton if #WhiteSox expanded deal to include a starter such as Danks. #tradedeadline #MLB

And one for Ramp

Buster_ESPN: Red Sox have talked with Oakland about a possible Rich Harden/Josh Willingham deal. Unclear whether it has a pulse now. #trades

[Metes]

I will miss Doug Fister in Seattle for two (2) reasons:

1) His last name is Fister

2) His walkup/theme music is "Teach Me How to Dougie"

[MiamiHomer]

Clippard and Bernadina being discussed for for Span now after Washington didn't want to give up Storen. A lot of people think Ubaldo is going to end up with the Yankees as well.