July 2019 Game Thread

[fish16]

There's no or there. Both my statement and your response can be true and are/were true.

what is hill supposed to do if loria comes in there and forces a move? Re-sign in protest from a job he's already being way overpaid for because loria rewarded all those guys with extensions and then forfeit his salary?

[Nick]

what is hill supposed to do if loria comes in there and forces a move? Re-sign in protest from a job he's already being way overpaid for because loria rewarded all those guys with extensions and then forfeit his salary?

Yes, that's your reputation on the line. Also, he'd have a valid case that Loria was not allowing him to do his job so if he did go down that road I'd have to think he'd have a good case for litigation. That was never going to happen because Hill was and still is nothing more than a yes man who will never get a high ranking spot in a front office again once his time with the marlins is done.

[fish16]

Yes, that's your reputation on the line. Also, he'd have a valid case that Loria was not allowing him to do his job so if he did go down that road I'd have to think he'd have a good case for litigation. That was never going to happen because Hill was and still is nothing more than a yes man who will never get a high ranking spot in a front office again once his time with the marlins is done.

that's not a cause of action for litigation, loria is well within his right to direct the way his front office runs the team.

What youre saying is incredibly easy to say from a position where youre not the one giving up millions upon millions of dollars and likely forcing your family to uproot itself when he gets a job with another team.

- - - - - - - - - -

if loria fired him for some stupid reason without cause, that might be a proper cause of action for wrongful termination but im pretty sure he would get his contract money in any event which would make that lawsuit pointless.

[Nick]

that's not a cause of action for litigation, loria is well within his right to direct the way his front office runs the team.

What youre saying is incredibly easy to say from a position where youre not the one giving up millions upon millions of dollars and likely forcing your family to uproot itself when he gets a job with another team.

- - - - - - - - - -

if loria fired him for some stupid reason without cause, that might be a proper cause of action for wrongful termination but im pretty sure he would get his contract money in any event which would make that lawsuit pointless.

Look I'm not arguing that Mike Hill is a bad guy, I'm not arguing whether he made the right decision for himself or his family by sticking around, I get it. I'm arguing by sticking around and letting Loria make moves irrespective of him makes him a bad GM, period. A huge part of being a GM is leadership, it's a position of authority, once Loria starts doing Hill's job for him, he loses all authority, at that point he's failed as a GM. Can you imagine Hill interviewing for another GM some time down the road, and them asking him, "Well looks like you made some very questionable moves from 2014-2017, what happened there?" And he responds, "Well you see my owner didn't really listen to me he did whatever he wanted all these bad moves that were made under my watch, well really that was all him." They respond,"And you stuck around in this situation even though these moves look very bad on you, for let me see, 5 more years?" How do you think that interview is going to end up going for Mike Hill? Assuming another Jeff Loria is not interviewing him.

[fish16]

Look I'm not arguing that Mike Hill is a bad guy, I'm not arguing whether he made the right decision for himself or his family by sticking around, I get it. I'm arguing by sticking around and letting Loria make moves irrespective of him makes him a bad GM, period. A huge part of being a GM is leadership, it's a position of authority, once Loria starts doing Hill's job for him, he loses all authority, at that point he's failed as a GM. Can you imagine Hill interviewing for another GM some time down the road, and them asking him, "Well looks like you made some very questionable moves from 2014-2017, what happened there?" And he responds, "Well you see my owner didn't really listen to me he did whatever he wanted all these bad moves that were made under my watch, well really that was all him." They respond,"And you stuck around in this situation even though these moves look very bad on you, for let me see, 5 more years?" How do you think that interview is going to end up going for Mike Hill? Assuming another Jeff Loria is not interviewing him.

i think it would end up with the other team likely having experience with dealing with the marlins during that period and understanding the circumstances that the gm was in. Not sure what you wanted him to do other than quit, which again is much easier to say when youre not the one voluntarily giving up money.

Give specifics as to what he could have done other than quit and give up all that money that would have enabled him to run the team free of loria's meddling?

[Nick]

i think it would end up with the other team likely having experience with dealing with the marlins during that period and understanding the circumstances that the gm was in. Not sure what you wanted him to do other than quit, which again is much easier to say when youre not the one voluntarily giving up money.

Give specifics as to what he could have done other than quit and give up all that money that would have enabled him to run the team free of loria's meddling?

Oh I dont know, refuse to sign off on a trade.

[fish16]

Oh I dont know, recuse to sign off on a trade.

refuse to sign off on a trade that the owner of the team is specifically telling you to make? seems like a great way to get fired and find yourself out of a job and uprooting your family to another team's city.

- - - - - - - - - -

and probably a great way to get fired for cause and forfeit the money he is owed as well

- - - - - - - - - -

it also wouldnt surprise me if teams knew they could take advantage of loria's idiocy and try to deal straight with him. Its supposedly exactly how boras managed to stick us with chen.

[Nick]

refuse to sign off on a trade that the owner of the team is specifically telling you to make? seems like a great way to get fired and find yourself out of a job and uprooting your family to another team's city.

- - - - - - - - - -

and probably a great way to get fired for cause and forfeit the money he is owed as well

Again I am not arguing whether Mike Hill is financially responsible or a good family man. So I dont know why you're taking this angle.

[fish16]

Again I am not arguing whether Mike Hill is financially responsible or a good family man. So I dont know why you're taking this angle.

im taking that angle because those were the choices he was faced with if he took the route you are suggesting. He can stay in his job and remain in the position with loria meddling all the time, or he could take the moral high ground and re-sign or openly defy the orders of the owner, both of which would likely result in him forfeiting the remaining money on his contract and forcing his family to move somewhere across the country.

- - - - - - - - - -

we can drop it though cause its a recycled 5 year old conversation. hopefully coop can come through here.

[Nick]

In the history of the MLB disagreements between owners and GMs have led to GMs moving on about 10,000 times. The good ones land on their feet and have the confidence to make that happen. Your argument is that Mike Hill was not willingly to risk doing that. That pretty much says it all. To be a good GM you have to be willing to do that. MLB GMs are probably not the best family men.

[fish16]

In the history of the MLB disagreements between owners and GMs have led to GMs moving on about 10,000 times. The good ones land on their feet and have the confidence to make that happen. Your argument is that Mike Hill was not willingly to risk doing that. That pretty much says it all. To be a good GM you have to be willing to do that. MLB GMs are probably not the best family men.

You dont have to be willing to do that, and in my opinion it is even more unwise for him to do that because loria gave him this ridiculous contract extension along with many of those other guys that were in the front office at the time. He would never have gotten anywhere near the money elsewhere. I understand your point, im just not gonna critique a guy for not making a financially stupid decision.

- - - - - - - - - -

i cant stand watching starlin play anymore but ill give him credit, he's been much better lately than he was to start the year.

[Nick]

Mattingly needs to be in the umps face. That last inning was a disgrace of umpiring

[Namaste]

The call on the last pitch to Granderson was an embarrassment to baseball.

[fish16]

The call on the last pitch to Granderson was an embarrassment to baseball.

Mlbs complete resistance to change is why it’s a dying sport among younger audiences. There is 0 reason in 2019 why we are having umpires making calls that everyone at home knows are right or wrong immediately but mlb refuses to make the strike zone automated

- - - - - - - - - -

also, if you can challenge other plays, why not include strike 3 calls in the plays that you are allowed to challenge? they clearly have the technology, and if you limit it to 2-3 challenges a game and the technology can clearly tell you if its a strike right away youre not making the game much longer at all.

[rmc523]

refuse to sign off on a trade that the owner of the team is specifically telling you to make? seems like a great way to get fired and find yourself out of a job and uprooting your family to another team's city.

- - - - - - - - - -

and probably a great way to get fired for cause and forfeit the money he is owed as well

- - - - - - - - - -

it also wouldnt surprise me if teams knew they could take advantage of loria's idiocy and try to deal straight with him. Its supposedly exactly how boras managed to stick us with chen.

I'm pretty sure it's been widely reported this is true. It's how we ended up with Buck, Bell, etc.