May Game Thread

[Nick]

The previous owner was actually one of the wildest spenders ever .... $40M to Martin Friggin' Prado???

That's not wild spending. That's dumb spending. Pretty big difference. Other than 2012, they were pretty much at least near the bottom of the payroll rankings for Loria's entire tenure. When they did spend money, it was almost always poorly. The big contract that worked out best for us is probably the Stanton Contract, and that one was still so bad, that we barely got anything for the defending NL MVP.

[fish16]

The previous owner was actually one of the wildest spenders ever .... $40M to Martin Friggin' Prado???

No he wasnt, he spent a below average amount of money. the issue he had was that in the rare times he wasnt a cheap asshole, he was a baseball idiot who insisted upon making his own baseball decisions over the objections of his actual baseball people and foolishly spent the money in the rare times that he did fork over the cash.

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It's also a very marlins fan thing to say that spending $40 million on a guy over 3 years is wild spending. That's not wild spending, that's foolish spending, and there is a big difference.

[rmc523]

Id also be interested to see if you can acquire money for a time period ahead of time or it is strictly based on when the deal is made

That's why I was asking. In the case a trade was made before the "rollover" date, you'd think it'd have to be for the next spending period, as with the current one ending just weeks from now, it wouldn't make sense to be acquiring funds for the expiring period.

I'd imagine there's a limit to it, though. Like you probably can't trade beyond the next period (year after next); perhaps there's a separate cutoff date where you can start trading the funds from the next period?

[fish16]

That's why I was asking. In the case a trade was made before the "rollover" date, you'd think it'd have to be for the next spending period, as with the current one ending just weeks from now, it wouldn't make sense to be acquiring funds for the expiring period.

I'd imagine there's a limit to it, though. Like you probably can't trade beyond the next period (year after next); perhaps there's a separate cutoff date where you can start trading the funds from the next period?

Ya probably. I ultimately dont think it will matter because we will probably be waiting until after the draft to see what the system is like anyways, but its in interesting question for a CBA expert. My guess is like yours, that you can probably only trade for IFA money one period ahead.

[tjfla]

The periods are from July 2 to June 15 and then a "dead period" till July 2

No future money or anything. Examples are(JUST EXAMPLES!!!)

Romo to Cubs for 500K on June 9-means 2018 IFA Pool
Prado to NYY for 250K on July 4-means 2019 IFA Pool

On June 16 NOTHING can be done till July 2. No IFA trades/No Signings NOTHING

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that and every team strikes out in IFA. look at some of the guys the red sox have struck out on and the yankees have had several as well. the key in that market is just to attack it with a lot of resources every year and see what pans out. Most of the time the top guys pan out, but not always, and thats ok. The key is just opening our team building strategy to actually signing IFA guys and using our IFA money as opposed to trading it for shitty retread veterans who wont make a difference.

The dumbest thing i ever heard on this site about loria was when tjfla said that loria used to say spending money in IFA wasnt worth it because most of them dont pan out. It's hard to put into words how unbelievably stupid that statement and team building strategy is in terms of long term franchise health and farm system depth..

His actual statement was something like why spend big money on 1 or 2 big time IFA guys when u can sign 15 or 20 for the same price. This was BEFORE the pools started when teams could spend whatever they wanted. His strategy was instead of spending 5 million on 1 "superstar" he could spend it on 20 guys who were just OK. Guy was an idiot and cheapskate

Funniest Jeff Loria "story" I heard was like year or 2 after Stanton became a star Jeff told all his scouts to look for the next Stanton. Was signing guys for 500K+ just because they were 6'4 220lbs+ yet were terrible and couldn't even make it out of DSL. Another good Jeff "story" was when his most expensive IFA signing was a 3B he got for 50K

[rmc523]

The periods are from July 2 to June 15 and then a "dead period" till July 2

No future money or anything. Examples are(JUST EXAMPLES!!!)

Romo to Cubs for 500K on June 9-means 2018 IFA Pool
Prado to NYY for 250K on July 4-means 2019 IFA Pool

On June 16 NOTHING can be done till July 2. No IFA trades/No Signings NOTHING

I get not being able to sign people, but not being able to trade IFA money at all for 2 weeks? That seems stupid.

[fish16]

I get not being able to sign people, but not being able to trade IFA money at all for 2 weeks? That seems stupid.

Agreed. There seems to be a lot of short sighted provisions in this cba that need to be fixed. That and tying draft pick compensation to teams that sign good free agents is foolish, all you’re doing is making your best feee agent players market significantly worse due to no part of their own. It’s absurd that teams are going out and legitimately saying that they will be interested in guys like Kimbrel and keuchel AFTER the draft once the draft xompensation is no longer tied. That’s an awful rule

[rmc523]

Agreed. There seems to be a lot of short sighted provisions in this cba that need to be fixed. That and tying draft pick compensation to teams that sign good free agents is foolish, all you’re doing is making your best feee agent players market significantly worse due to no part of their own. It’s absurd that teams are going out and legitimately saying that they will be interested in guys like Kimbrel and keuchel AFTER the draft once the draft xompensation is no longer tied. That’s an awful rule

Just give the team that loses said free agent a compensatory pick but don't make the new team lose a pick.

[fish16]

Just give the team that loses said free agent a compensatory pick but don't make the new team lose a pick.

Completely agreed. I understand the thought process but especially in the modern age of baseball where so few teams want to spend on free agency anyways, it’s completely unfair to penalize teams who actually do want to spend money and penalize players who are just looking to get paid what their market value is, not what their market value is minus the estimated cost of losing a first round pick to a team

[rmc523]

Completely agreed. I understand the thought process but especially in the modern age of baseball where so few teams want to spend on free agency anyways, it’s completely unfair to penalize teams who actually do want to spend money and penalize players who are just looking to get paid what their market value is, not what their market value is minus the estimated cost of losing a first round pick to a team

Well, couple that with what has effectively become a cap with the crazy penalties for going above whatever the $200+M payroll figure is, and you have a recipe for what we have now.

[fish16]

Well, couple that with what has effectively become a cap with the crazy penalties for going above whatever the $200+M payroll figure is, and you have a recipe for what we have now.

Yup, im fine with a luxury tax or whatever, but tying draft pick compensation to a free agent thereby lessening his value on the market is just wrong.

[rmc523]

Yup, im fine with a luxury tax or whatever, but tying draft pick compensation to a free agent thereby lessening his value on the market is just wrong.

Right. What I'm saying is the two factors together limit a FA's market. Draft pick plus a luxury tax. If there weren't a luxury tax, teams may overlook the draft pick. So put them both together, and you have what we have now, that's all I was saying.

[fish16]

Right. What I'm saying is the two factors together limit a FA's market. Draft pick plus a luxury tax. If there weren't a luxury tax, teams may overlook the draft pick. So put them both together, and you have what we have now, that's all I was saying.

Agreed, although in my opinion the draft pick is the far bigger deterrent. There are very few teams actually concerned with the luxury tax. It's generally the Yankees, Dodgers, maybe Red Sox, and I think maybe the cubs. is that it? To me the bigger deterrent is the draft pick because in this modern age of increased emphasis on smart team building, it is pretty standard thinking in the business now that you dont throw away early draft picks and you limit your high free agent signings. Attaching losing a draft pick to the signing of a high priced free agent is just bullshit. Whoever negotiated these CBA's on behalf of the players either did a terrible job or was completely short sighted in some of the effects of these new changes. Which is weird because MLB generally has the strongest players union out of the 4 major american sports.

But ultimately, ya, we're on the same page. When does this CBA expire?

[rmc523]

Agreed, although in my opinion the draft pick is the far bigger deterrent. There are very few teams actually concerned with the luxury tax. It's generally the Yankees, Dodgers, maybe Red Sox, and I think maybe the cubs. is that it? To me the bigger deterrent is the draft pick because in this modern age of increased emphasis on smart team building, it is pretty standard thinking in the business now that you dont throw away early draft picks and you limit your high free agent signings. Attaching losing a draft pick to the signing of a high priced free agent is just bullshit. Whoever negotiated these CBA's on behalf of the players either did a terrible job or was completely short sighted in some of the effects of these new changes. Which is weird because MLB generally has the strongest players union out of the 4 major american sports.

But ultimately, ya, we're on the same page. When does this CBA expire?

2021 I think?

That's why there's been talk of reopening and changing things recently since it's so far off from a new one.

[fish16]

2021 I think?

That's why there's been talk of reopening and changing things recently since it's so far off from a new one.

Thanks for the info. Theyve really gotta change that aspect of the free agent system as well as change the incentives for teams so that holding down top prospects for as long as possible is no longer the smart move. Teams wont stop doing it until they stop incentivizing it. It's really bad for the sport.