Season Super Game Thread

[Lee Stone]

He backloaded the contracts. Especially Stanton and Chen's Contracts. For example, Stantons Contract was 13 years $325 million. The 3 years that Jeff Loria paid for that contract were 3 years $30 million. Stanton makes $25 million this year. Chen's was a 5 year $80 million contract. Loria paid for 2 years $15 million total, 3 years $65 million left on the contract after he left. This was all very calculated.

Calculated by knowing he would sell the team? Again, I don't follow. The existence of those contracts could only devalue his asset.

[gustavopim]

According to Joe Frisaro, Elieser Hernandez is replacing J. Garcia in the rotation and starting tonight. C Smith goes tomorrow. The whole Hernandez situation is confusing. I realize the Marlins lose him if he doesn't stay on the roster, but why should they care? Hernandez hasn't pitched higher than A+ ball and failed to distinguish himself there. He's done nothing this year to suggest he's a keeper ... not that I've seen. Will hope for his best, but I'm disappointed by this news. As far as Garcia going back to the pen goes, I'm in line with that.

I had tickets for tonight's game and I was expecting to see KKKKKKKaleb Smith not Eliser Hernandez. FFFUUU***kkkkk

[Nick]

Calculated by knowing he would sell the team? Again, I don't follow. The existence of those contracts could only devalue his asset.

Correct.

If those contracts did cost him money when selling the team, you could've fooled me. To me and it seems to most others, Jeter and Sherman overpaid out the ass.

[Lee Stone]

Correct.

If those contracts did cost him money when selling the team, you could've fooled me. To me and it seems to most others, Jeter and Sherman overpaid out the ass.

Arguing against that is one important fact: I can't think of a single MLB, NBA, or NFL franchise that ever went down in value. Not one. It's a sure thing as far as investments go. $1.2 billion just ain't what it used to be.

[fauowls44]

Correct.

If those contracts did cost him money when selling the team, you could've fooled me. To me and it seems to most others, Jeter and Sherman overpaid out the ass.

Maybe but with a new TV contract and legalized sports gambling, the price may not be an overpayment. Mark Cuban said with the change in the gambling law, all owners in the major sports saw their team values double. While that’s likely an exaggeration, it’s likely that the value of franchises did go up significantly with a major new revenue source and increased interest. I’ve found that on any sports team sale, when everyone thinks someone overpaid, it generally is not the case. What was the last team to go down in value? Stephen Ross was mocked for paying $1 billion for the Dolphins and that will end up being a bargain.

[Nick]

Maybe but with a new TV contract and legalized sports gambling, the price may not be an overpayment. Mark Cuban said with the change in the gambling law, all owners in the major sports saw their team values double. While that’s likely an exaggeration, it’s likely that the value of franchises did go up significantly with a major new revenue source and increased interest. I’ve found that on any sports team sale, when everyone thinks someone overpaid, it generally is not the case. What was the last team to go down in value? Stephen Ross was mocked for paying $1 billion for the Dolphins and that will end up being a bargain.

This is probably right, and Lee is right in his statement, but I think it just furthers my point that Loria knew that the terrible contracts on the books wouldn't even be a factor in the sale. Someone was going to pay for the first MLB team to be on the market in 6 years, and he was right.

[Lee Stone]

Maybe but with a new TV contract and legalized sports gambling, the price may not be an overpayment. Mark Cuban said with the change in the gambling law, all owners in the major sports saw their team values double. While that’s likely an exaggeration, it’s likely that the value of franchises did go up significantly with a major new revenue source and increased interest. I’ve found that on any sports team sale, when everyone thinks someone overpaid, it generally is not the case. What was the last team to go down in value? Stephen Ross was mocked for paying $1 billion for the Dolphins and that will end up being a bargain.

More than a bargain! The value of the Dolphin franchise, as reported a year ago, was $2.6 billion. However, Ross purchased more than just the team with his original $1 billion investment in 2008/9. He also acquired the stadium and tons of land around it. I'd venture a guess that he has tripled his investment by now. On the subject of back-loaded contracts: They work to the benefit of both the employer and employee. In this case, Loria was able to delay payment of a major share of the contract, allowing him to hold on to as much investment capital as he could for as long as he could. For the player, the result was a larger total contract than he would have otherwise received.

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I had tickets for tonight's game and I was expecting to see KKKKKKKaleb Smith not Eliser Hernandez. FFFUUU***kkkkk

At least you'll get to see Jarlin Garcia in early relief! For the life of me, I don't understand the Hernandez infatuation. 4 ERA in A+ Carolina League last season; nothing shinier at Jupiter or Jacksonville this year either.

[fish16]

More than a bargain! The value of the Dolphin franchise, as reported a year ago, was $2.6 billion. However, Ross purchased more than just the team with his original $1 billion investment in 2008/9. He also acquired the stadium and tons of land around it. I'd venture a guess that he has tripled his investment by now. On the subject of back-loaded contracts: They work to the benefit of both the employer and employee. In this case, Loria was able to delay payment of a major share of the contract, allowing him to hold on to as much investment capital as he could for as long as he could. For the player, the result was a larger total contract than he would have otherwise received.

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At least you'll get to see Jarlin Garcia in early relief! For the life of me, I don't understand the Hernandez infatuation. 4 ERA in A+ Carolina League last season; nothing shinier at Jupiter or Jacksonville this year either.

because, for the 25th time, actual stuff matters and he has great stuff.

I think the Jarlin thing is due to innings limits more than anything else.

[Nick]

More than a bargain! On the subject of back-loaded contracts: They work to the benefit of both the employer and employee. In this case, Loria was able to delay payment of a major share of the contract, allowing him to hold on to as much investment capital as he could for as long as he could. For the player, the result was a larger total contract than he would have otherwise received.

Nothing wrong with backloaded contracts. There is something wrong with the way Loria used backloaded contracts, and it's a huge reason our minor league system was in shambles. Backloaded contracts were a way for him to not pay anybody at all. Go back and look at the contracts of guys like Mark Buerhle, Jose Reyes and Carlos Delgado. That shit is laughable, he'd pay them like $6-8 million for the 1st year for a 5-6 year contract that had an average salary of $15-20 million. He had no intention of ever paying that player when those contracts got to the point where they were getting $20+ million a year. So we end up dealing them for literally nothing in return, instead of investing money in the minor league system, and Major League Baseball let him get away with that shit every single time.

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LMAO, Carlos Delgado was even worse than I thought. Signed him to a 4 year $52 million contract. Paid him $4 million that 1st year, and then dealt him.

[fish16]

Ya, this last group of backloaded contracts was clearly done for the purpose of loria never having to pay that in the payroll with no regard for the future payroll constraints because they all blew up the second he was first legally allowed to sell the team with no penalty.

[Lee Stone]

Nothing wrong with backloaded contracts. There is something wrong with the way Loria used backloaded contracts, and it's a huge reason our minor league system was in shambles. Backloaded contracts were a way for him to not pay anybody at all. Go back and look at the contracts of guys like Mark Buerhle, Jose Reyes and Carlos Delgado. That shit is laughable, he'd pay them like $6-8 million for the 1st year for a 5-6 year contract that had an average salary of $15-20 million. He had no intention of ever paying that player when those contracts got to the point where they were getting $20+ million a year. So we end up dealing them for literally nothing in return, instead of investing money in the minor league system, and Major League Baseball let him get away with that shit every single time.

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LMAO, Carlos Delgado was even worse than I thought. Signed him to a 4 year $52 million contract. Paid him $4 million that 1st year, and then dealt him.

For those keeping score at home, Loria did send the Mets $7 million in the Delgado trade. So the Marlins spent $11 million for a year, just a couple mill shy of 25% of the contract.

[Nick]

For those keeping score at home, Loria did send the Mets $7 million in the Delgado trade. So the Marlins did spend $11 million for a year.

How does that change anything or disprove what I'm saying in any way? I'm sure Loria was just smitten to have to give up that $7 million to unload that big contract he gave in the previous off-season.

[Lee Stone]

How does that change anything or disprove what I'm saying in any way? I'm sure Loria was just smitten to have to give up that $7 million to unload that big contract he gave in the previous off-season.

I have no interest in changing or disproving anything, just clarified the fact that Loria paid a reasonable part of the Delgado contract. I assumed you'd be interested.

[Maddawg]

Might want to compare what those contracts are worth and what Jeff Loria actually paid on those contracts, and then come back to us on whether Loria was a cheapskate.

The Truth is told

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Correct.

If those contracts did cost him money when selling the team, you could've fooled me. To me and it seems to most others, Jeter and Sherman overpaid out the ass.

They overpaid by $300 if not $400 million. Manfred was so anxious to get Jeter in, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that Manfred cut a deal with some if not all the owners to loan Sherman/Jeter or MLB some of the extra money just to get Loria out & Jeter in....we'll probably never know the whole story but there could be some kind of deal like this.

But it just seems strange that you would pay 40 to 50% overpay and not just tell Loria thanks but no thanks....that is a lot of money to overpay......something just isn't kosher about it.

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Maybe but with a new TV contract and legalized sports gambling, the price may not be an overpayment. Mark Cuban said with the change in the gambling law, all owners in the major sports saw their team values double. While that’s likely an exaggeration, it’s likely that the value of franchises did go up significantly with a major new revenue source and increased interest. I’ve found that on any sports team sale, when everyone thinks someone overpaid, it generally is not the case. What was the last team to go down in value? Stephen Ross was mocked for paying $1 billion for the Dolphins and that will end up being a bargain.

yeah but it's already cost waaaay more than $1.1 billion he bought the Dolphins for. He's paid for two stadium improvements totalling over $500 million out of his own pocket (and rightly so he owns the stadium & the Dolphins). And now he wants a new training facility.....that is going to cost even more. Doesn't matter too much I guess his net worth when he bought the Fins was $4 billion, it's now over $7 billion. The richest or one of the top 3 in the NFL......and growing fast.

[fish16]

i dont know how much longer they can continue to go with tazawa at this point. They dont want to cut him because of the money but he's a complete lost cause at this point.