2023 Game Thread

[TheMendozaLine]

Atrocious

[lou]

That’s the type of loss that can very easily be the beginning of a long losing streak.

They are 9-17 last 26, this is just who they are.

Bell and Burger can't show up fast enough.

I do agree Skip (or the FO calling things down) have made a lot of skeptical decisions last few weeks. 101 pitches is a lot, but it's Sandy and he has proven he can handle loads. Robertson is the shiny new object, but I can't see that pull unless Sandy was out of gas.

[fish16]

32-20 with eury on the roster. 25-31 with him in AA. What on earth are they doing? It's complete mismanagement.

[lou]

32-20 with eury on the roster. 25-31 with him in AA. What on earth are they doing? It's complete mismanagement.

This is a terrible use of statistics and note, the hard part of the schedule hasn't hit this team and Eury will be up for those games pitching the same MLB innings. This is legitimately not correlative at all - these guys simply cannot hit and cannot win games scoring 1 run. They left 25 guys on base. 25. Burger and Bell optimistically right this ship.

[TheMendozaLine]

Taco Bell and Burger King won’t save this team.

[Erick]

32-20 with eury on the roster. 25-31 with him in AA. What on earth are they doing? It's complete mismanagement.

Eury would’ve won us this game. Lol.

[Erick]

Yes, the offense was garbage tonight and yes maybe Sandy could’ve gone back out for the 9th, but we’re talking about a W if David Robertson, our new acquisition who has been good most of his career, gets the save.

This franchise is cursed. Wouldn’t surprise me if Robertson sucks Heath Bell style now. Every other late inning reliever tends to suck for this franchise as it is. Can’t even blame Kim Ng, it was the right move.

[lou]

Yes, the offense was garbage tonight and yes maybe Sandy could’ve gone back out for the 9th, but we’re talking about a W if David Robertson, our new acquisition who has been good most of his career, gets the save.

This franchise is cursed. Wouldn’t surprise me if Robertson sucks Heath Bell style now. Every other late inning reliever tends to suck for this franchise as it is. Can’t even blame Kim Ng, it was the right move.

I think you gotta leave Sandy in, but yea, Robertson also should not have his worst outing in 56+ months tonight. Horrible.

[Nick]

It blows my mind with the way Skip has treated Sandy this year. (AKA he's shown a ton of trust in him even at times when he shouldn't have) That he would take him out at 101 pitches there in that game. Yeah my only thought is like lou said Robertson is the shiny new toy that he had to use.

[lou]

40 man update for 2024:

Fortes, _____ (Banfield)
Bell (Johnston)
Arraez, Edwards
______ (Amaya, Nasim)
Burger, Berti (Groshans)
DLC, Myers
Jazz (Mesa Jr)
Sanchez, Garcia (Burdick)
20 bats

Sandy, Eury, Cabrera (Meyer)
Luzardo, Rogers, Garrett (Weathers)
Lopez, Chargois, Brazoban (Soriano, Bender, Hoeing, Maldonado, Sixto)
Scott, Puk, Okert, Nardi
20 arms (plus Monteverde and Fulton not on 40 man)

Blanks lines

-Starting SS
-Platoon catcher (or Stallings)

Luxury upgrades

-Another OF would be vastly appreciated unless we really like any of those parenthesis guys, Edwards, or Myers to hit. DLC should be the DH and out of the field.

-RHP RP upgrade and jettison any of them. Sixto is the only parenthesis guy OOO so he’s making the team or that’s it. Brazoban has an option so he can go down if they get an upgrade.


Probably $15-18m minimum to spend in free agency, optimistically Bruce raises the budget. I’d probably ditch Chargois for whatever and let’s be optimistic with a slight payroll increase and that’s $20-25m to spend on a C, SS, OF, and RHP RP, likely Sixto or one of the other last RHP relievers is the DFA to make that happen for the last spot unless someone is hurt and can be put on the 60 man.

Some work left to do, but this is a pretty legit roster for next year if they do get those 3-4 last guys. I feel I say that every year.

[sports24/7]

40 man update for 2024:

Fortes, _____ (Banfield)
Bell (Johnston)
Arraez, Edwards
______ (Amaya, Nasim)
Burger, Berti (Groshans)
DLC, Myers
Jazz (Mesa Jr)
Sanchez, Garcia (Burdick)
20 bats

Sandy, Eury, Cabrera (Meyer)
Luzardo, Rogers, Garrett (Weathers)
Lopez, Chargois, Brazoban (Soriano, Bender, Hoeing, Maldonado, Sixto)
Scott, Puk, Okert, Nardi
20 arms (plus Monteverde and Fulton not on 40 man)

Blanks lines

-Starting SS
-Platoon catcher (or Stallings)

Luxury upgrades

-Another OF would be vastly appreciated unless we really like any of those parenthesis guys, Edwards, or Myers to hit. DLC should be the DH and out of the field.

-RHP RP upgrade and jettison any of them. Sixto is the only parenthesis guy OOO so he’s making the team or that’s it. Brazoban has an option so he can go down if they get an upgrade.


Probably $15-18m minimum to spend in free agency, optimistically Bruce raises the budget. I’d probably ditch Chargois for whatever and let’s be optimistic with a slight payroll increase and that’s $20-25m to spend on a C, SS, OF, and RHP RP, likely Sixto or one of the other last RHP relievers is the DFA to make that happen for the last spot unless someone is hurt and can be put on the 60 man.

Some work left to do, but this is a pretty legit roster for next year if they do get those 3-4 last guys. I feel I say that every year.

Assuming they don't completely fall on their faces to end the year, there can be no excuses for not spending this offseason. The window is here. Get a catcher and SS, and ideally, a corner OF. Tweak the bullpen. Trade one of your pitchers, and hope you can hit the jackpot like you did with Arraez.

It would be really nice to see them go on a run here for obvious reasons, but the real prize there would be showing ownership they're ready to compete, and that the fans will support a contending team.

[lou]

Assuming they don't completely fall on their faces to end the year, there can be no excuses for not spending this offseason. The window is here. Get a catcher and SS, and ideally, a corner OF. Tweak the bullpen. Trade one of your pitchers, and hope you can hit the jackpot like you did with Arraez.

It would be really nice to see them go on a run here for obvious reasons, but the real prize there would be showing ownership they're ready to compete, and that the fans will support a contending team.

Yep, but here's the problem (and why we all yelled and screamed for a SS this last winter). Next year's FA isn't the best. Here's a truncated list.


Catcher: Mitch Garver, Yan Gomes (club option), Yasmani Grandal, Omar Narvaez, Mike Zunino

First base: Rhys Hoskins (if Bell opts-out), Brandon Belt, C.J. Cron

Shortstop: Tim Anderson (club option), Javier Baez (opt-out), Amed Rosario, Paul DeJong (club option), Adalberto Mondesi, Isiah Kiner-Falefa, Joey Wendle

Third base: Matt Chapman, Justin Turner (opt-out), Brian Anderson

Outfield: Cody Bellinger, Michael Conforto (opt-out), Teoscar Hernandez, Joey Gallo, Kevin Kiermaier, Joc Pederson (if Bell opts-out), Jorge Soler (opt-out - and if Bell opts-out),Harrison Bader,Andrew McCutchen, Charlie Blackmon, Michael Brantley, Tommy Pham, Mark Canha (club option), Adam Duvall, Randal Grichuk, Max Kepler (club option), Victor Robles (club option), Michael A. Taylor, Jesse Winker (if Bell opts-out)

Starting pitcher: Shohei Ohtani, Clayton Kershaw, Aaron Nola, Blake Snell, Julio Urias, Eduardo Rodriguez (opt-out), Lucas Giolito, Sonny Gray, Marcus Stroman (opt-out), Jordan Montgomery, Jack Flaherty, Lance Lynn (club option), Kenta Maeda, Charlie Morton (club option), Alex Cobb (club option), Kyle Hendricks (club option), Seth Lugo (player option), Rich Hill, Corey Kluber (club option), Hyun Jin Ryu, Luis Severino, Zack Greinke, Johnny Cueto (club option), Carlos Carrasco, Mike Clevinger (mutual option), German Marquez (club option), Wade Miley (mutual option), Noah Syndergaard, Michael Wacha (club and player options), Andrew Heaney (opt-out), Tyler Mahle, Sean Manaea (opt-out), Frankie Montas, Ross Stripling (opt-out), Alex Wood

Relief pitcher: Josh Hader, Liam Hendriks (club option), Aroldis Chapman, Craig Kimbrel, David Robertson, Jordan Hicks, Jose Alvarado, Andrew Chafin, Michael Fulmer, Jose Leclerc (club option), Alex Reyes (club option)


If the wish list is a C, SS, OF, and I'll say a RHP RP, I'm seeing something like Rosario and Grichuk being the best options here for what they usually spend. I can see them punting the longterm SS determination another year to see what Amaya, Nasim, and Cappe do and betting on a 28 year old resurgence for Rosario (whose been better since June 1). And then they'll have to trade pitching for a C as there are none and presumably RHP RP (they aren't spending big money on a RP IMO), and sign pitching to replace the pitching they moved, etc. I can see them doing something like moving Scott/Okert and Chargois (all of them are in arbitration so that saves money in theory) for a younger right hander ala trading Floro to get a year of control of Lopez. Maybe someone like Josh Sborz or Griffin Jax, and they do it because they get a lefty and second arm for their right hander which they have many of. Maybe a prospect too. I imagine Rogers/Garrett is the trade bait here for a catcher.

That would do this:

ROGERS/GARRETT TRADE, Fortes (Banfield)
Bell (Johnston)
Arraez, Edwards
ROSARIO FA (Amaya, Nasim)
Burger, Berti (Groshans)
GRICHUK OR BETTER FA, DLC (Myers)
Jazz (Mesa Jr)
Sanchez, Garcia (Burdick)
21 bats

Sandy, Eury, Cabrera, 1 YEAR FA SP (Meyer)
Luzardo, Rogers/Garrett (Weathers)
RP TRADE, Lopez, Brazoban (Soriano, Bender, Hoeing, Maldonado, Sixto)
Puk, Scott/Okert, Nardi
19 arms (plus Monteverde and Fulton not on 40 man)

And Bruce can wow here with a more expensive OF (Bellinger, Bader) or SP on that list or maybe bring in a fancy RP on top of this and kick Brazoban to AAA and DFA one of the last guys, which is where I feel his wallet can make a real impact. There is just not much else out there for them to spend on in FA. But, I can see what they are doing with Bell, Burger, jettisoning Segura, Lopez, and swapping Weathers for Eder. This was a pretty smart plan, albeit ultimately lacking as they still need another bat upgrade. But maybe Garcia saves them.......

[fish16]

i cant get over how much skip blew that game last night.

[fish16]

they need to go sign a LF and SS this offseason and trade for a C. They cannot have DLC starting. He is a 4th OF, 2nd DH type player. He just isnt very good. Ive been saying it for a while but he is just not good. He's 1000 ab's into his career and has 2.3 WAR. He is a huge liability defensively. He is a bad baserunner. He has terrible plate discipline, and he doesnt hit for any kind of impressive power. He is a 4th OF. He is perfect in that role. Shift him around the DH spot or corner OF spot to give guys days off and he is a perfect piece in that role. Giving him 4 ab's every night is a bad idea. It's the same thing every year, he goes on a hot streak and his numbers look much better than his actual production on a night in and night out basis. Just like last year, every month other than may he has a .692 OPS or below. He had a single hot streak this year in May, and it makes him look like an above average hitter. He isnt. He doesnt get on base, and he doesnt hit for nearly enough power to overcome how unbelievably inconsistent he is.

[lou]

Also to mention, this is probably $92m for the do-nothing team:

C Stallings, Fortes
1B Bell
2B Arraez, Edwards
SS Amaya
3B Burger, Berti
LF DLC, Myers
CF Jazz
RF Sanchez, Garcia

SP Sandy, Eury, Cabrera, Rogers, Luzardo, Garrett
RP Lopez, Chargois, Brazoban, Puk, Scott, Okert, Nardi

Dead Money - Cueto, Barnes


They recoup around $12m if they trade Rogers, Scott, and Chargois and don't re-sign Stallings, as well as recoup $1.5m if Myers and Amaya just open in AAA.

So this could be say $78m-ish + they will have gotten something good for Scott and Rogers likely club controlled. So do those trades and pick your favorite 3 lines to spend in FA from that list above and how much is Bruce going to greenlight? I'd like to think Bellinger/Bader, Rosario, and a legit # 4 FA SP could be done for under $120-125m (with only the OF being a longterm commitment and Bell's $16.5m drop off the books in 2025, and then Garcia's $12m drop off soon thereafter) or so which seems like a really fucking reasonable payroll to me to act as a contender.

C _____, Fortes
1B Bell
2B Arraez, Edwards
SS _____
3B Burger, Berti
LF _____, DLC
CF Jazz
RF Sanchez, Garcia

SP Sandy, Eury, Cabrera, Luzardo, Garrett, _____
RP _____, Lopez, Puk, Okert, Nardi, Brazoban, Bender/Soriano