2023 Game Thread

[fish16]

We don’t have the pieces to get anyone big like Goldschmidt without giving up current mlb pieces or eury. Almost every single one of our top prospects is either having a horrific year or got injured. They are going to need to improve in the margins with a cheap combo like candelario, backup c, and one more set up man and maybe an outfielder to replace Davis

[Nick]

We don’t have the pieces to get anyone big like Goldschmidt without giving up current mlb pieces or eury. Almost every single one of our top prospects is either having a horrific year or got injured. They are going to need to improve in the margins with a cheap combo like candelario, backup c, and one more set up man and maybe an outfielder to replace Davis

You tear it down to make it happen.

Eder
Meyer
X. Edwards
Monteverde
Cappe
Vargas

[Nick]

Also, if Austin Allen is passable defensively, why not give him a look over Stallings? .828 OPS at AAA, .212 BABIP Hits Left-Handed. It'll never happen.

[fish16]

You tear it down to make it happen.

Eder
Meyer
X. Edwards
Monteverde
Cappe
Vargas

im all for goldschmidt if he is available, just not necessarily for that price. A combo of that sure, but not all of that. The thing is though, the cardinals arent blowing it up. They have won 90 games each of the last 2 seasons with mostly the same roster. They arent trading goldschmidt. They will fire the manager at the end of the year because he is a train wreck, make some moves to improve the pitching in the offseason, and then be right back as a contender next year with Arenado, Goldschmidt, Walker, and Donovan, Gorman, and Nootbar. That team always just tinkers and is right back.

I think unless a true star like that is actually available, we are better served improving the bottom of the lineup. I know we are accustomed to thinking this lineup is just flatly awful, but it isnt. Arraez has a .900 OPS, Soler is .866, and Jazz hasnt even gotten hot yet. The bigger issue to me if they cant find a star that is actually available like Goldschmidt, is to improve in the margins and have a lineup that is a legitimate threat 1-9. Our leadoff spot is 12th in OPS and first in average. Our #2 spot is 11th in OPs. Our 3 spot is 13th. our 4 spot is 28th but that is now jazz. Our 5 spot is 7th in OPs. Our 6 spot is 24th, our 7 spot is 19th, 8 spot is 23rd, and our 9 spot has a .686 OPS.

We have given a combined 634 ab's to Segura, Hampson, Davis, Stallings, Garcia, and Burdick. Go find quality improvements and improve the depth of the lineup plus a righty reliever. Something like Candelario, Yan Gomes, Gallegos, and say Tyler O'neill or dylan carlson would not cost you much of anything in terms of significant prospects. That's what i would do absent a star actually becoming available. That isnt going to be the sexy, splashy move everyone wants to see, but that is a significant improvement in the margins that doesnt impact your future pitching which we've seen this year is always needed due to injuries. Maybe you circle back in the offseason and revisit trading multiples of Meyer, Fulton, and Eder, but to me right now their value is each as low as it's ever been. you're not getting the value in a trade right now that you'd want. Unless you can somehow, then i would just improve the bottom of the roster and fill every hole. Despite Lou' s nonsense about Candelario somehow costing a top 100 prospect despite 0 precedent for that, that haul wouldnt cost you more than 3-4 mid level prospects.

Despite all the talk about how bad this lineup is, we are currently 15th in OPS. With this pitching, that can get it done with improvements to the back end of the lineup that has consistently been shit this year to push you up to the 10-12 range.

[rmc523]

Braves just don’t lose. 21-4 in their last 25 heading into our series. A series win for us would be a minor miracle

I'm hoping for not getting swept - winning 1/3.

[fish16]

Also, if Austin Allen is passable defensively, why not give him a look over Stallings? .828 OPS at AAA, .212 BABIP Hits Left-Handed. It'll never happen.

stallings does stink but id venture to guess that given that Allen has now done this in AAA across several organizations, teams identify him as a AAAA player. Id guess he also probably isnt very good defensively given that he's barely even been given a major league shot outside of 118 at bats where he put up a .540 OPS over 4 seperate big league seasons. He probably just isnt very good, and teams realize that.

Just go get a guy like Yan gomes and move on from stallings. Im tired of seeing a guy miss his spot by a foot and a half and stallings standing up and pointing at him like its a good pitch.

[fish16]

I'm hoping for not getting swept - winning 1/3.

same, take 1/3 and move on. that team is a juggernaut and is going to win the world series i think. If they can somehow steal 2 out of 3 we would have to be ecstatic. Who knows, we do have eury going for one of the games and sandy for another, but i think they are absolutely going to tee off on Hoeing on friday to set the tone for the series. They need to get tonights game.

[fish16]

one guy that i wouldnt mind seeing an upgrade on, or at least a platoon partner for, is Sanchez. He had a nice little hot streak, but he has looked like shit recently. Go get someone who can take his place if the struggles continue or at the very least is a nice lefty hitting complement even if he does start hitting again a little. Davis is pretty terrible. Since his first 2 outlier games in colorado, he is hitting .202 overall, he has 24 strikeouts in 74 at bats, and he has 3 extra base hits total. That's an improvement in the margins that helps you a lot. He is getting way too much playing time, just like hampson was before him.

[rmc523]

I have no recollection of this team being 13 games over in 2009. I remember acquiring nick Johnson as a relatively big piece, but from memory that was a couple games over and we just decided to go for it. Would have never guessed we were 13 over at that time

I thought they said on the broadcast that that 13 over mark was at the end of the year? I remember seeing an 87-74 on the screen.

I was only able to half listen, though, as I was on the phone at the time.

[fish16]

I thought they said on the broadcast that that 13 over mark was at the end of the year? I remember seeing an 87-74 on the screen.

I was only able to half listen, though, as I was on the phone at the time.

looks like you're right. they got to 87-74 with 3 straight wins after they were eliminated and then lost the last game to finish 87-75. Still have no recollection of the record even being that good. Looking at the stats on that team, not sure how they got to that mark anyways. the starting pitching was awful outside of JJ. A lot of Sean West, Ricky Nolasco, and Chris Volstad being terrible

[fish16]

I just saw a stat that the nationals have not swept a series in 90 consecutive series, setting the mlb record. I don’t miss playing the braves and Mets 18 times but I do miss more nationals games

[lou]

I fear that the more games we win, the less inclined Bruce will be to spend money adding pieces (or move a lot of pieces from the farm to acquire a big bat).

“we are winning series after series, why change anything”

Yes, I have a feeling we are heading towards a complacency kills analysis. Get cheap whatever players (like only Grichuk and not something huge), don't trade the main pitching, hope for the best. The calendar still has 2024/2025 circled when every SP is healthy and has innings capacity which they don't right now. It's a quick bottom dropping out when it happens getting smoked and going 2-11 or whatever over 4 series in August and saying we didn't see this coming

They see this happening and choose to do nothing interesting:

June - Wendle .871 OPS (78 PA)
June - Cooper .873 OPS (81 PA)
June - Stallings .713 OPS (40 PA)
Jazz has been hurt, and he hit a HR off a lefty
Sandy has been struggling
Segura has been insanely struggling, and he has some hits
Hoeing - HOEING - has a 2.31 ERA
No Rogers
No Cueto and Garcia (I mean they likely have some expectations for them)

Even if DLC, Sanchez, Yuli, and Floro are slowing down/streaky, others are stepping up to fill the void. And they'll swing back around as DLC, Sanchez, and Floro are streaky and Yuli can just be replaced by Garcia or a low level lefty killing trade on the roster.


It'll be a mistake as looming innings problems is coming (especially if Cueto is a pumpkin, unless Hoeing is in fact his xFIP of 4.4 something era which is acceptable. Hoeing can throw 80-90 more innings easily this year capacity wise if he doesn't implode) and they absolutely need a 4th core bat after the 3 big ones.


We'll see. I'd like to think they'd do the right thing, but this is the Marlins.


Also a side note - Soler is clearly opting out at this point. The Marlins can tender him a qualifying offer which he will decline and get a 2 year deal like Josh Bell more than likely. I don't think he'd be a Joc Pederson situation and take it, absent a real bad second half. Effectively, they'll recoup a decent draft pick here or just keep Soler as a premium DH for a year. So if we're weighing should Kim blast out the farm, between a Soler opt-out + qualifying offer, and Scott/Okert and Floro traded in offseason to reduce payroll, they are going to recoup some guys here in their top 10-20 prospect range. They can really afford to move 3-4 of their top 10 guys, and another 3-4 in their top 20 with the amount of MLB control, good picks coming in the 2023 draft, and these other secondary depth prospects coming. Just don't get rentals and some years (i.e. Edman, McMahon, Robert types, or even Candelario + an extension as why not sign him for 2-3. High defensive floor plays) and it'll be fine. Also resign Arraez and Luzardo, Jazz if healthy, and give Eury the Hunter Greene deal on top of this to really plant the flag. In fact, do that all right now. What a team morale boost if the guys see the organization take care of their own + do significant trades for help. It might in fact, feel like a real baseball team.

[dgriot]

I have no recollection of this team being 13 games over in 2009. I remember acquiring nick Johnson as a relatively big piece, but from memory that was a couple games over and we just decided to go for it. Would have never guessed we were 13 over at that time

I distinctly remember a game where the opponent's broadcast booth (think it was the Mets) clowned Johnson for his walkup song of Timberlake's Sexyback. The booth collectively paused, then said something like "this must be a mistake, or an ironic choice".

[Nick]

looks like you're right. they got to 87-74 with 3 straight wins after they were eliminated and then lost the last game to finish 87-75. Still have no recollection of the record even being that good. Looking at the stats on that team, not sure how they got to that mark anyways. the starting pitching was awful outside of JJ. A lot of Sean West, Ricky Nolasco, and Chris Volstad being terrible

It was a pretty damn good lineup, especially after they picked up Johnson.

[fish16]

Braxton garrett doesnt need to be extended yet but he has certainly earned discussion this year. XFIP is down to 2.85. Outside of the one start where skip allowed him to get blown up, he has a 2.44 ERA, .98 WHIP, and an 89/13 k/bb ratio in 77.1 innings. He should be an all star but wont. He also could have gone 7 last night if it didnt start to rain. In june he had 5 starts,28.1 innings, 2.22 ERA, and a 38/3 K/BB ratio.