2023 Game Thread

[Erick]

Dude, I get segura has had a bad few months to start the year. He is absolutely an every day player in this league. He’s been a 3+ war guy over 162 games every year outside of 1 since 2016. He didn’t just completely forget how to play baseball

He’s not a good offensive player against right-handed pitching, which has been offset by his defense at 2B in recent years.

Look at his stats dating back to like 2017, he was pretty mediocre against RHP and very good against LHP.

I don’t know why you like him so much, considering you dislike some other guys (like Wendle who has a similar profile, but hits RHP instead of LHP).

Saying Wendle/Segura would be a good platoon is simply statistically correct…assuming Segura gets back to his ways against LHP since he’s actually sucked against LHP this year too.

[fish16]

He’s not a good offensive player against right-handed pitching, which has been offset by his defense at 2B in recent years.

Look at his stats dating back to like 2017, he was pretty mediocre against RHP and very good against LHP.

I don’t know why you like him so much, considering you dislike some other guys (like Wendle who has a similar profile, but hits RHP instead of LHP).

Saying Wendle/Segura would be a good platoon is simply statistically correct…assuming Segura gets back to his ways against LHP since he’s actually sucked against LHP this year too.

He hasnt been a good offensive player against righties THIS YEAR. He has been perfectly passable for his career. Dating back to his breakout in 2016, here are his OPS against righties: .900, .762, .737, .693, .746, .736, .669 in just 98 games last year due to injury and just .548 this year. That is perfectly passable with numbers against lefties. this isnt 2004. Those are good hitting numbers. Here are his numbers against lefties dating back to 2016: .763, .819, .803, .905, .828, .886, .855, and now .567 this year. Those numbers combined vs righties and lefties are a good player overall. He is better than what he has done in his first few months here.

[fish16]

this ump is nowhere close on the left side of the plate

[Erick]

He hasnt been a good offensive player against righties THIS YEAR. He has been perfectly passable for his career. Dating back to his breakout in 2016, here are his OPS against righties: .900, .762, .737, .693, .746, .736, .669 in just 98 games last year due to injury and just .548 this year. That is perfectly passable with numbers against lefties. this isnt 2004. Those are good hitting numbers. Here are his numbers against lefties dating back to 2016: .763, .819, .803, .905, .828, .886, .855, and now .567 this year. Those numbers combined vs righties and lefties are a good player overall. He is better than what he has done in his first few months here.

.737, .693, .746, .736, .669 the last 5 years + the data this year is good?

We have different definitions of good offense, I guess. Overall, it’s below average production against RHP at a very reliable recent sample size (5+ years).

I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove here because the 5 year sample against RHP is pretty mediocre while the 5 year sample against LHP is very good, basically proving my point that he’s a platoon player.

[fish16]

.737, .693, .746, .736, .669 the last 5 years + the data this year is good?

We have different definitions of good offense, I guess. Overall, it’s below average production against RHP at a very reliable recent sample size (5+ years).

I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove here because the 5 year sample against RHP is pretty mediocre while the 5 year sample against LHP is very good, basically proving my point that he’s a platoon player.

yes, the years in the mid .700's are good. Obviously he has stunk this year thus far but has been much better since coming back from the injured list. im not sure if you expect every player to hit in the .800's against both sides of the plate but that production in the mid .700's is absolutely an every day player combined with his elite production against lefties.

Arraez's production against lefties coming into this year wasnt good either. He was .685 last year, .657 the year before, .564 in 2020, and .696 in 2019. I think if you actually look into it you'd be very surprised how few players actually hit .750+ against both righties and lefties.

[Erick]

Also keep in mind that it’s easier to improve the Wendle/Segura situation than the C situation, which needs improvement as well of course.

But if I had to pick one, I’d rather have an infield bat over the catcher. For one, most of the catchers on the market suck. Two, if I have to sacrifice offense from one position, it would be catcher, not 3B. Especially middle of the season, a catcher learning a whole new entire staff in the middle of a playoff race is probably not ideal. Especially when the two options are overpaid Salvador Perez and career year in Coors Field Elias Diaz.

If we’re trading the few prospects we have for an offensive upgrade, 3B (or SS) seem like the more logical choices.

[Erick]

yes, the years in the mid .700's are good. Obviously he has stunk this year thus far but has been much better since coming back from the injured list. im not sure if you expect every player to hit in the .800's against both sides of the plate but that production in the mid .700's is absolutely an every day player combined with his elite production against lefties.

Arraez's production against lefties coming into this year wasnt good either. He was .685 last year, .657 the year before, .564 in 2020, and .696 in 2019. I think if you actually look into it you'd be very surprised how few players actually hit .750+ against both righties and lefties.

So I guess Joey Wendle is a fine every day player too?

[fish16]

So I guess Joey Wendle is a fine every day player too?

joey wendle doesnt hit either side very well. not sure what you dont get about that. He is a career .735 OPS against righties and a dismal .647 against lefties. Segura is .771 against lefties and .715 against righties. And even those numbers are pretty weighed down by his 2014 and 2015 in milwaukee where he had back to back .616 and .614 OPS seasons in over 500 at bats.

[fish16]

jacob stallings is completely fucking worthless. it remains absurd that he is still on this team.

[fish16]

our 2 catchers have a .544 and a .540 OPS. There needs to be an upgrade. Yan gomes would cost almost nothing at the deadline. We're talking a fringe bullpen arm maybe. Just go get him and end this shit C production. Gomes isnt great but he is a good defender and a flatly competent hitter at the C position.

[Erick]

joey wendle doesnt hit either side very well. not sure what you dont get about that. He is a career .735 OPS against righties and a dismal .647 against lefties. Segura is .771 against lefties and .715 against righties. And even those numbers are pretty weighed down by his 2014 and 2015 in milwaukee where he had back to back .616 and .614 OPS seasons in over 500 at bats.

You’re pretty wrong about this, but that’s ok. Me personally, I wouldn’t mind upgrading the infield and having them off the bench or in platoon roles, which is what they are.

Wendle had several near .800 .OPS years against RHP with the Rays and even the A’s, as well, which is what you’re giving Segura credit for against righties.

At this stage of their respective careers, they’re more similar than different, not sure why you can’t acknowledge that. If anything, the difference is that Wendle has been slightly above average defensively while Segura hasn’t even been average defensively at 3B. For some reason, you’re still valuing Segura as a 2B, talking about his 3 WAR seasons.

You’re contextualizing stats like Lee Stone when he sees an old prospect.

[Erick]

Just as I type that, another awesome throw by Jean Segura at 3B…

[Todd]

I still think Fortes is fine. His defense is very good and he is just getting fairly unlucky(BABIP around .240) and his BB rate is about half of normal.

He is probably pressing too much.

[fish16]

You’re pretty wrong about this, but that’s ok. Me personally, I wouldn’t mind upgrading the infield and having them off the bench or in platoon roles, which is what they are.

Wendle had several near .800 .OPS years against RHP with the Rays and even the A’s, as well, which is what you’re giving Segura credit for against righties.

At this stage of their respective careers, they’re more similar than different, not sure why you can’t acknowledge that. If anything, the difference is that Wendle has been slightly above average defensively while Segura hasn’t even been average defensively at 3B. For some reason, you’re still valuing Segura as a 2B, talking about his 3 WAR seasons.

You’re contextualizing stats like Lee Stone when he sees an old prospect.

Their career numbers dont lie. Joey wendle has a career .735 OPS against righties. You're saying Segura isnt an every day player because he isnt good against righties when he is comparably good against righties, his bad platoon split, as Wendle is against righties, his good platoon split.

You're pretty clearly looking at just OPS with no context considering Wendle had 101 career at bats over 2 years with the a's. One year he had a .572 OPS against righties in 97 PA and the other was .973!!!!! (IN 13 PLATE APPEARANCES). Wendle has hit .645 against righties this year in 164 at bats, .671 against righties last year in 286 at bats,

Im not contextualizing anything. Over the large sample of both of their careers, segura has been passable against righties and really good against lefties, and Wendle has barely been passable against righties and unplayable against lefties. That is why one is an every day caliber player and the other is a not very good platoon player.

You also keep talking about his fielding as if it was the entire basis of his value. It wasnt. WRC+ is not adjusted for position. Here are his WRC+ numbers by year since 2016- 126, 111, 109, 91, 106, 109, 105, and now this year 56. This idea that he was benefitting from his defense as the entire basis of his value like he's jackie bradley JR is nonsense.

[fish16]

another rope by segura directly at nootbar.