July 2021 Game Thread

[fish16]

im gonna say it now before we potentially trade him to a possibly smarter team- whichever team gets elieser Hernandez and uses him like the rays would will be getting an absolute steal. if we don't put him in our bullpen as a multi inning trevor richards type option we will be really dumb. We moved him to the bullpen i think 2 years ago and he didn't look comfortable, but if he ever does get comfortable he will be an absolute steal of a reliever.

If you do need a 5th starter guy if there is an injury or a guy like Meyer doesn't progress as expected, a combo of Elieser and a guy like Zach Thompson each going 3-4 innings every 5th day and eating up 6-8 innings total and going no more than 2 times through the lineup each would be an incredibly effective combo. Or if you have 2 guys like that out of the bullpen available for multiple innings several times a week that's a really big strength.

He's had 2 injuries that have limited him the last 2 years, but in the 11 starts dating back to last year, Elieser has a low-mid 3 ERA, a whip around 1.05, 57 K's, just 9 walks, in 47 innings. If you utilize him as the kind of weapon he can be you can really get a fuck ton of surplus value out of him. If you continue to try to get any more than 5 IP each time out, you will be really squandering a unique and extremely competent asset that you've acquired via a flier in a rule 5 draft.

[fish16]

edward cabrera night. lets get it.

[fish16]

trevor richards on the mound for the mets. always love to see former 2nd round picks we traded away for front office members who were fired shortly after trading for them. has any other team traded any players for front office members in the last 10 years, let alone the 2 we've traded away in ozzie Martinez for ozzie guillen and richards for I think him benedict?

[rmc523]

trevor richards on the mound for the mets. always love to see former 2nd round picks we traded away for front office members who were fired shortly after trading for them. has any other team traded any players for front office members in the last 10 years, let alone the 2 we've traded away in ozzie Martinez for ozzie guillen and richards for I think him benedict?

It's Trevor Williams lol

[fish16]

It's Trevor Williams lol

my bad, had trevor richards on the mind. But he's a guy who was a 2nd round pick who, while obviously not a great player, has been a decent mlb pitcher for now 6 mlb seasons who we traded for a pitching coordinator who was fired within a year. it is one of the dumbest moves loria ever made. it is the height of stupidity in an ownership tenure that was marked by stupidity.

his 2017 and 2018 were pretty damn good and would have been one of our best pitchers for those awful years.

[fish16]

brad hand dfa'd by the blue jays. if his value is super low in the offseason give me him every time as a lefty flier.

[fish16]

good to see villar is still the single worst base runner we've ever witnessed. the fact that we got conine for him is crazy. he's so fucking dumb on the bases.

[Nick]

Villar is so dumb and Miggy knew it.

[fish16]

love to see cabrera up here regardless. this is rogers 2.0 to me. the guy clearly has the stuff to be an impact pitcher up here. so glad they said fuck the service time and let him take his lumps up here to end the year in an obvious lost year in order to allow him to hopefully minimize these kinds of lumps to begin next year. I think this can only be good for him for next year and for 2023 and beyond. Cabrera's stuff is obvious and his poise and command jump off the screen. the results are obviously important, but to me, I'm ok with watching him take lumps every once and a while to end this year if it will help him be more effective to start next year in a year we will theoretically be looking to compete.

Im hoping they do the same for Meyer for 2-3 starts at the end of the year and then give him AAA to start next year before coming up mid 2022.

[lou]

Meyer for 2-3 starts at the end of the year

Why are you going to put Meyer on the 40 man? No.

[gustavopim]

i can't stand Diaz and Sierra anymore. Please get them off this team

[fish16]

Why are you going to put Meyer on the 40 man? No.

because meyer on the 40 man isn't gonna be the issue. the issue will be his service time on the ML roster. If you give him a couple starts to get knocked around to end the year and have him get a head start on the lumps he's gonna take in the majors, you'll ideally save some issues when he makes his next major league appearances in the middle of next year when you will theoretically be trying to compete. Same thing with rogers this year/last year and a lot of others. You give him the 15 days to end the year and get 3 starts at the major league level, then delay those 15 days whenever that service time cutoff come next year, you get both the benefit of the experience of him facing major league hitters and figuring out some stuff in a lost year at the major league level, and you get the added benefit of losing just 15 days next year of ML service time without having an impact on his clock. If it means having to sacrifice one of the guys they have shown they care about being on the 40 man roster like sierra going into next year, who gives a flying fuck. Im not saying bring up meyer and say fuck it for the extra year of service time you get by delaying him. Im saying bring him up for some ML experience, delay his service time by 15 or whatever amount of days it will cost in the middle of next year, and live with the 1 guy like sierra or guenther, etc. that it will cost to do so. To me, the added benefit of a few ML starts for a guy like Meyer is worth losing a worthless "40 man roster guy" going into next year.

like give me a fucking break, god forbid we lose guys on our 40 man roster for next year like guenther, paul Campbell, Austin pruitt, steven okert, sandy leon, detwiler, joe panik, or sierra or brian miller. The added benefit for next years team of Meyer getting some ML experience for 15 days heading into next year is well worth the fringe 40 man roster guy they will lose. Especially if the goal is to go all in to compete next year like we all hope for.

[lou]

because meyer on the 40 man isn't gonna be the issue. the issue will be his service time on the ML roster. If you give him a couple starts to get knocked around to end the year and have him get a head start on the lumps he's gonna take in the majors, you'll ideally save some issues when he makes his next major league appearances in the middle of next year when you will theoretically be trying to compete. Same thing with rogers this year/last year and a lot of others. You give him the 15 days to end the year and get 3 starts at the major league level, then delay those 15 days whenever that service time cutoff come next year, you get both the benefit of the experience of him facing major league hitters and figuring out some stuff in a lost year at the major league level, and you get the added benefit of losing just 15 days next year of ML service time without having an impact on his clock. If it means having to sacrifice one of the guys they have shown they care about being on the 40 man roster like sierra going into next year, who gives a flying fuck. Im not saying bring up meyer and say fuck it for the extra year of service time you get by delaying him. Im saying bring him up for some ML experience, delay his service time by 15 or whatever amount of days it will cost in the middle of next year, and live with the 1 guy like sierra or guenther, etc. that it will cost to do so. To me, the added benefit of a few ML starts for a guy like Meyer is worth losing a worthless "40 man roster guy" going into next year.

like give me a fucking break, god forbid we lose guys on our 40 man roster for next year like guenther, paul Campbell, Austin pruitt, steven okert, sandy leon, detwiler, joe panik, or sierra or brian miller. The added benefit for next years team of Meyer getting some ML experience for 15 days heading into next year is well worth the fringe 40 man roster guy they will lose. Especially if the goal is to go all in to compete next year like we all hope for.

Yes that is an issue because you can't protect an arm or someone like De La Cruz because you gave Meyer 10 innings this September. It's a better list than that junk you listed.

[lou]

im gonna say it now before we potentially trade him to a possibly smarter team- whichever team gets elieser Hernandez and uses him like the rays would will be getting an absolute steal. if we don't put him in our bullpen as a multi inning trevor richards type option we will be really dumb. We moved him to the bullpen i think 2 years ago and he didn't look comfortable, but if he ever does get comfortable he will be an absolute steal of a reliever.

If you do need a 5th starter guy if there is an injury or a guy like Meyer doesn't progress as expected, a combo of Elieser and a guy like Zach Thompson each going 3-4 innings every 5th day and eating up 6-8 innings total and going no more than 2 times through the lineup each would be an incredibly effective combo. Or if you have 2 guys like that out of the bullpen available for multiple innings several times a week that's a really big strength.

He's had 2 injuries that have limited him the last 2 years, but in the 11 starts dating back to last year, Elieser has a low-mid 3 ERA, a whip around 1.05, 57 K's, just 9 walks, in 47 innings. If you utilize him as the kind of weapon he can be you can really get a fuck ton of surplus value out of him. If you continue to try to get any more than 5 IP each time out, you will be really squandering a unique and extremely competent asset that you've acquired via a flier in a rule 5 draft.

Yes they are going to turn starters into relievers. Remember when this annoyed you last week?

BTW, given inning workloads based on a lost 2020 and performance/injuries in 2021, this is probably what guys can throw next year. I'm a firm believer guys shouldn't have a massive uptick in innings when this young (and off injury). Besides Sandy, these guys need to survive the year and then can be looking at big workloads in 2023 if they can handle it.

Sandy - as many as he can handle
Rogers - 150+ IP
Pablo - 150 IP
Luzardo - 150 IP
Thompson - 125+ IP
Hernandez - 125+ IP
Sixto - 125 IP
Cabrera - 125 IP
Meyer - 125 IP

Assuming Pablo is traded for a mega bat (and lefty reliever), I think I'd open the year with (even better if Pablo is retained obviously assuming the fix bats):

Sandy
Rogers
Hernandez
Luzardo
Thompson

And have Sixto and Cabrera be on a pretty consistent schedule to throw 2+ innings (1 time through lineup) every 3-4 days in April (basically, target the Hernandez and Thompson starts), bump it up to 3-4 innings in late May, and start stretching them out for 6 innings in July.

Think of this as treating Sixto and Cabrera as the average of Johan Santana 2002/2003 seasons. Minnesota was smart AF how they developed him. This is Sixto/Cabrera throwing approx 130 IP, 15 starts, 20 other appearances next year. This makes the most sense to me based on where they are at and the Marlins needing their best arms in the bigs day 1.

We don't want these guys burning out in September when god willingly games matter. It's going to be a mission to juggle this, but it'll pay dividends keeping everyone super fresh. I think you are under the incorrect assumption these guys can project to be 180 IP. None of them can except Sandy.

[Nick]

I'm counting 29 guys on the current 40-man roster that you have to protect and 15 guys on the current 40-man who could be kicked off right now and nobody would care. 10 spots seems like it would be sufficient to protect the minor league players that needed to be protected and fill the rest of the roster with trades and Free Agency, if they wanted to call up Meyer.

That being said, Ng has said emphatically that we won't see Meyer this year, and I would expect they stick to that.