April 2021 game thread

[Nick]

and given our OF depth that should be arriving later this year and early next year in Bleday, Burdick, and Sanchez without even mentioning guys further off but not too far away like Encarnacion, Conine, Misner, Connor Scott, etc, they ain't keeping him.

You can name all the names you want tjfla style, but players need to perform in the minor leagues. How can you say anybody should be arriving, when they're not performing at the minor league level? Out of those names you mention, I would say Sanchez and Burdick are the only two that I would say have "good" minor league numbers, and even then you can have a guy like Isan Diaz who does perform in the minor leagues and gets to the majors and is helpless. You gotta start filling out your lineup with known quantities at some point.

[Erick]

What all of those prospects have in common is that none of them are proven at the big league level.

If Starling Marte isn’t the answer for some reason, fine. But who is the franchise spending money on? You need proven players at some point to win. With the exception of the Rays, that’s the way it works.

[rmc523]

What all of those prospects have in common is that none of them are proven at the big league level.

If Starling Marte isn’t the answer for some reason, fine. But who is the franchise spending money on? You need proven players at some point to win. With the exception of the Rays, that’s the way it works.

This.

Not saying all the guys in the minors will turn out like Brinson, but the team hasn't had a very good track record of putting out good offensive players lately.

[fish16]

What all of those prospects have in common is that none of them are proven at the big league level.

If Starling Marte isn’t the answer for some reason, fine. But who is the franchise spending money on? You need proven players at some point to win. With the exception of the Rays, that’s the way it works.

I completely agree, what I'm arguing is that it makes more sense to let marte walk if he wants 4+ years, rely on those kids to prove themselves along with a smart veteran signing maybe to complement them or give us a floor at a particular spot in the OF, and then spend the money on other areas like Catcher and maybe 3b and bullpen instead of signing a 32 year old player with an injury history to a long term deal at a position where we have prospect depth at.

[Maddawg]

Unbelievable isn't it? How could Brinson, Diaz, Harrison and Yamamoto all be disasters? But here we are.

Like Magneuris Sierra has been terrible, but if he were in that Brewers trade he would be the best player we got back.

the worst part is, Yelich was under a favorable contract. Tell him to shut up & play....

[fish16]

on a side note, if they get back into the race a little on the next month or so I think jon gray if he gets healthy would be a perfect addition to the back end of the rotation. he's a guy that will become a reliable mid rotation guy the second he gets out of colorado. Plus, he's a free agent at the end of the year so he isn't going to cost much and wont block anyone in future years. he's a guy I wanted in the offseason and I think he is the perfect piece to give us more rotation stability and I think he will do wonders for himself getting out of colorado and into our ballpark.

[sports24/7]

This has nothing to do with protecting the front office. I criticize the front office all the time and do so vocally. This is about feigning outrage because they are struggling because the GM said something that we all knew to be true coming into the year. who gives a shit if she said never. We all knew they weren't expecting to be an offensive juggernaut this year. If you did you're a fool. That's all she was talking about. And if you're now surprised that their philosophy is to build through their young pitching, where have you been the last 3 years?

They have had key injury after key injury the entire year. Their top 4 hitters have spent significant time on the DL all year. All are guys that can realistically expect to be above 800 OPS or so and they have been out for huge swaths of time on a team that every single person here knows should not have been expected to be a top tier offensive team even if we stayed healthy.

You say duvall was a bad signing. I didn't love the signing at the time, but just saying they shouldn't have signed X isn't a good argument. The argument needs to be they shouldn't have signed X so that they could instead have signed Y. Who is a name you thought they should have signed and what did they get in free agency. What catcher should they have gotten? You wanted james mccann for the ridiculous money the mets got him for? don't just say they should have gotten a catcher, tell me the catcher they should have gotten that would have made sense for the money. They should have traded OF depth for a prospect catcher, but again, that prospect catcher would not have made a difference this year.

They didn't rely on Brinson or Harrison. Those guys were their 5th OF options coming into the year behind Marte, Duvall, DIckerson, and Cooper. Just because freak injury after freak injury has necessitated them to call up guys who have struggled doesn't mean that was a planning issue. They had too many guys for 3 OF spots to begin with, not an overreliance on bad prospects. Find me a team that can safely rely on their 5th OF option to produce.

Feigning outrage? I said I didn’t like the comments. You were the one who wrote a dissertation on it. You keep talking about expecting the offense to be bad this year, but it’s not just about this year. She spoke about it as a philosophical approach. So while you don’t care that she used the word “never”, I do. But as for this year, the goal was to build off of a playoff season, yes? So signing a mediocre bat should never have been the plan. You want an alternative? Go back to my comments in the offseason about trading for guys like Benintendi, who it has just came out that they passed on because they were unwilling to give up Jon fucking Berti. At catcher they should have been more aggressive in their pursuit of Yermin Mercedes, or anyone instead of going into the year with Alfaro and Wallach as their only options. Again, though, it isn’t just about this year. It’s about their approach in general. I’m not writing them off, either. It’s early. They could still turn things around. I’m just saying the early returns on many of their moves, along with these comments are disheartening.

As for the OF prospects, let’s actually see any of them produce at the big league level, or even show a moderate amount of promise that they can give you confidence that they will. There has been some encouraging things with some of them, but with the exception of Sanchez, none of them are exactly tearing the cover off of the ball. So your left, once again, hoping that they pan out, while doing nothing to protect yourself against the possibility that they don’t. If they just simply hope these guys are the answer, and they don’t pan out (which the odds suggest they probably won’t because that’s how it works with prospects in general, let alone bats in this organization under this management group), this team won’t be competitive for a while, and will have wasted the pitching they’ve built.

[Nick]

I'm 1000% positive Ng did not mean that she thought the Marlins would never have a high scoring offense under her watch. I'm also 1000% positive she meant she never thought this year's team would have a high scoring offense.

[sports24/7]

I'm going to let the Marte situation play itself out before I crucify them about not discussing re-signing him yet. I do think we should do everything we can to re-sign him, but it's also worth noting that he's played all of 53 games for us and has already had 2 significant injuries, granted they were both kinda freak things, but he is entering his mid-30s. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

If it were up to me, we would've gone into this season with JT Realmuto and a significantly more beefed up bullpen. But they didn't spend the money classic Marlins, that's on Jeter/Sherman, not Ng/Denbo. I can't say the lineup would've looked any different other than that though. You've invested a lot into the many OFs that are currently at AA and AAA, and you had to find away to bridge the gap to them, and it wasn't going to be with star players. I don't think you can guard against 5 starters being on the DL at the same time. (Sixto, Neidert, Elieser, Castano, Poteet, hell even throw Cabrera in there he would've been up by now if he'd been healthy up til now) Maybe they could've brought someone more formidable in on a minor league contract than Gio Gonzalez, but I think that's pretty much the only complaint that's valid as far as how the rotation was set up.

I'm not crucifying them, just voicing my concern. Like I said in my previous post. It's early, and I'm rooting for Ng not just because she's our GM, but because I think it would be good for the game, and sports in general if she succeeds. I just didn't like the offseason moves, and didn't like the comments. And while the money thing is certainly a major issue, I don't think that's the only issue. The reports that have come out with regard to them not pulling the trigger on guys like Benitendi/Mercedes/Contreras because they didn't want to add a mid level prospect, or bench player is discouraging. We'll have to wait and see if this is a trend that continues, or is just something that happened early on in this process.

[Nick]

I'm not crucifying them, just voicing my concern. Like I said in my previous post. It's early, and I'm rooting for Ng not just because she's our GM, but because I think it would be good for the game, and sports in general if she succeeds. I just didn't like the offseason moves, and didn't like the comments. And while the money thing is certainly a major issue, I don't think that's the only issue. The reports that have come out with regard to them not pulling the trigger on guys like Benitendi/Mercedes/Contreras because they didn't want to add a mid level prospect, or bench player is discouraging. We'll have to wait and see if this is a trend that continues, or is just something that happened early on in this process.

These names your bringing up are not difference makers. If the reports on the Contreras deal are correct about what the asking price was, then the Marlins absolutely did the right thing not making that deal. Benintendi is a middle of the pack starting corner OF at best, according to Baseball Reference he's 0.1 WAR better than Duvall so far this year. Mercedes was a 27-year old career minor leaguer going into this season, who only has any value at catcher. He's played all of 1 inning at catcher for the White Sox this season. Other than 5 innings he's been strictly a DH, which we don't have in the NL. And oh by the way he has a sub-.600 OPS since the end of April.

[fish16]

exactly. people always like to criticize moves and say we didn't do enough without acknowledging who they would have liked to add and whether that was at all realistic. Id prefer if we added mike trout for free instead of duvall, but that's not an option that was on the table.

[sports24/7]

These names your bringing up are not difference makers. If the reports on the Contreras deal are correct about what the asking price was, then the Marlins absolutely did the right thing not making that deal. Benintendi is a middle of the pack starting corner OF at best, according to Baseball Reference he's 0.1 WAR better than Duvall so far this year. Mercedes was a 27-year old career minor leaguer going into this season, who only has any value at catcher. He's played all of 1 inning at catcher for the White Sox this season. Other than 5 innings he's been strictly a DH, which we don't have in the NL. And oh by the way he has a sub-.600 OPS since the end of April.

They were never going to get difference makers, though. Obviously that's unrealistic. But those guys would have made the lineup better. You do that, and spend just a little bit of money on the bullpen, and maybe this team is in better shape, with the chance to contend for the division when they get healthy. It's not like the players they were rumored to give up for any of those three guys are, or will ever be difference makers.

[fish16]

They were never going to get difference makers, though. Obviously that's unrealistic. But those guys would have made the lineup better. You do that, and spend just a little bit of money on the bullpen, and maybe this team is in better shape, with the chance to contend for the division when they get healthy. It's not like the players they were rumored to give up for any of those three guys are, or will ever be difference makers.

Peyton Burdick will be a starting OF within 2 years. Zack McCambley was the other guy and he was out 3rd rounder last year that they wanted and he has a 39/4 K/BB ratio having just turned 22 in A+ ball and 3.48 ERA and .94 WHIP.

Jake eder who they also might have wanted has 50k's and 12 bb's in 29 innings and .61 ERA and .81 WHIP in AA as a 22 year old.

Willson contreras is a good catcher but he is also a free agent after next year and has had a less than .800's OPS in 3 out of the last 4 years. Putting him over alfaro is a clear and obvious improvement, but it's also not anything that would significantly change where we are right now.

Face it, they are where they are right now because of injuries to Marte, BA, Jazz, Sixto, Elieser, Rojas, and to a lesser extent Alfaro. 5 of those guys are critical to our team and the other 2 are critical not because they are great but because of the current alternatives (alfaro and elieser). No moves this offseason would have helped us overcome that shit. They just need to regroup, hopefully sweep the rockies, and slowly climb back into it until we get healthy again and can hopefully make a run again based off the strength of our amazing top 4 in the rotation when sixto is healthy.

[sports24/7]

Peyton Burdick will be a starting OF within 2 years. Zack McCambley was the other guy and he was out 3rd rounder last year that they wanted and he has a 39/4 K/BB ratio having just turned 22 in A+ ball and 3.48 ERA and .94 WHIP.

Jake eder who they also might have wanted has 50k's and 12 bb's in 29 innings and .61 ERA and .81 WHIP in AA as a 22 year old.

Willson contreras is a good catcher but he is also a free agent after next year and has had a less than .800's OPS in 3 out of the last 4 years. Putting him over alfaro is a clear and obvious improvement, but it's also not anything that would significantly change where we are right now.

Face it, they are where they are right now because of injuries to Marte, BA, Jazz, Sixto, Elieser, Rojas, and to a lesser extent Alfaro. 5 of those guys are critical to our team and the other 2 are critical not because they are great but because of the current alternatives (alfaro and elieser). No moves this offseason would have helped us overcome that shit. They just need to regroup, hopefully sweep the rockies, and slowly climb back into it until we get healthy again and can hopefully make a run again based off the strength of our amazing top 4 in the rotation when sixto is healthy.

I hope you're right on Burdick, but the odds are against that happening. And even if he's a starter, will he be significantly better than Contreras? I hope so, but again, the odds say that's very unlikely. Same with McCambley, but probably even stronger against. Even most good prospects fall short when they get to the bigs. Eder wasn't mentioned, so I don't think we can speculate on him. And considering he was just drafted, I think it's unlikely.

I'm not necessarily saying they'd be significantly different had they made these moves. The injuries would still be the injuries, and the lineup would be close to what it is now. But slight improvements in the lineup, along with a better plan for the pen probably have the Marlins at least a few games ahead of where they are. That would put them in ok shape when/if they get healthier, and potentially eventually Jesus Sanchez coming up and providing some help.

I'll reiterate that I'm not writing them off. I just think if you look at what they've done, it's not overly encouraging. And Ng's comments didn't make me feel a whole lot better about it, although I respect that she went out there and answered questions.

[rmc523]

the worst part is, Yelich was under a favorable contract. Tell him to shut up & play....

We don't need to rehash this. Most wanted to keep Yelich but understood the full reset.