2019-2020 Offseason Discussion

[tjfla]

Already said but MLB needs to keep the Winter Meetings out of the Pacific Time Zone. Nothing happens till 1PM EST and by 1AM EST everyone is sleeping while they are announcing stuff

Marlins talking with Minnesota on Rosario and Seattle on Haniger. Neither are close with Minnesota waiting to see how SP market goes(they are in on MadBum/Ryu and others) and Seattle asking crazy stuff still

Caleb Smith/Rosario big deal could work for both teams

[fish16]

And in regards to the “you’re assuming a bigger name would sign here” comment, those names care mostly about money. We will have the young talent, but I’d be trying to save every dollar possible for a guy like lindor, and there is no doubt giving out big money contracts for 3 years from now would affect our ability to make a competitive offer. So I’d do deals where we take on long term salary for prospects this year where we would be front loading the money we take on.

So for example, take on prices salary or most of it for this year, then take on progressively less for the next few years. If you make it a 3 year, 50-60 million deal taking on all of the contract this year in a way that would enable them to re-sign betts, then take on significantly less in the next two years. Works out for both teams long term plans

[tjfla]

If they foot some of the bill and prices Medicals check out then yes. If they eat 10-15 a year for price and throw in an attractive prospect I’d gladly take on one year of Castillo’s contract. Castillo can be a 1 year guy whose contract we eat for prospects and if prices medicals check out he is still a very good pitcher when healthy and eats a ton of innings. Not playing in that division and that ballpark will also help him out tremendously and he would be a great middle of the rotation stabilizing force for a few years while we see what we have in the young pitchers.

If you can make prices deal let’s say, 3 years 50-60 Million or so, eat Castillo’s contract for a year, and get an attractive group of prospects out of it as well as not give up much of long term value, id be all over that.

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And that would obviously only be a possibility if the Sox make the evaluation that they need to get rid of salary in order to re-sign betts, which has become increasingly a question mark over the course of the last year

If Boston wants u to take Castillo's contract(which is whatever) they better be talking 1 of Bryan Mata/Bobby Dalbec or Triston Casas because after trade yesterday between LAA/SF thats the minimum price

ANY salary dump for 1 yr at 15-17 million is now a FV45 prospect at minimum

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Rule 5 Tommorrow at 12 Noon

Marlins can add 1 right now but if DFA Moran or Wallach before tommorrow could add 2

Thinking its gonna end up a P by way. Houston/SD/Milwaukee teams most likely for us and Sterling Sharp from Washington has been getting some buzz

Really wish we would jsut DFA Moran and take 2 guys They got the space. RP in 1st Rd and Upside bat in 2nd Rd like Javier/Newton/Cristhian Santana/Ruiz/Matias. Let the kid stick around and next year u put him in AA

[emkayseven]

Castillo doesn’t count toward the luxury tax for them. There is no reason for them to trade him and attach a prospect as it clears actual money which is not a problem for them but doesn’t do anything to the luxury tax number which is the actual issue.

[fish16]

Castillo doesn’t count toward the luxury tax for them. There is no reason for them to trade him and attach a prospect as it clears actual money which is not a problem for them but doesn’t do anything to the luxury tax number which is the actual issue.

Correct, which is also the reason why he has never been brought back up to the big league team I believe. But 13.5 million is 13.5 million and that can help them in betts contract discussions so it’s not completely irrelevant to what the purpose of a deal like that would be

[emkayseven]

That team prints money, they are not hard up for $13 million. The only reason they are looking to shed salary is so they don’t have to pay the luxury tax, period. Castillo‘s contract is nothing for them, that’s why they’ve never tried to trade it before. They would have no impetus to attach a prospect just to clear his salary when they could do the same with a player who is actually hurting them on the luxury tax.

[fish16]

That team prints money, they are not hard up for $13 million. The only reason they are looking to shed salary is so they don’t have to pay the luxury tax, period. Castillo‘s contract is nothing for them, that’s why they’ve never tried to trade it before. They would have no impetus to attach a prospect just to clear his salary when they could do the same with a player who is actually hurting them on the luxury tax.

The prospect would be for prices deal, and again, no matter how much money they have 13.5 million is 13.5 million they could spend on someone else so while I get what you’re saying and obviously it wouldn’t make sense for them to deal a prospect for him, it wouldn’t be completely meaningless to them to get rid of that salary from their books

[rmc523]

And in regards to the “you’re assuming a bigger name would sign here” comment, those names care mostly about money. We will have the young talent, but I’d be trying to save every dollar possible for a guy like lindor, and there is no doubt giving out big money contracts for 3 years from now would affect our ability to make a competitive offer. So I’d do deals where we take on long term salary for prospects this year where we would be front loading the money we take on.

So for example, take on prices salary or most of it for this year, then take on progressively less for the next few years. If you make it a 3 year, 50-60 million deal taking on all of the contract this year in a way that would enable them to re-sign betts, then take on significantly less in the next two years. Works out for both teams long term plans

Two problems with this. Any "big money" guy we'd want to go after, we'd be competing against other teams with bigger pockets. To be fair, we've not seen what this group is willing to spend, but I'm skeptical.

You're talking about front loading what we acquire so we can acquire a bigger name down the road - we're literally advocating doing the same thing with a FA signing. Now, I suppose you'd get prospects back too if you acquire a guy, but they also might provide less value (there's a reason said team is trying to get rid of them, after all).

Already said but MLB needs to keep the Winter Meetings out of the Pacific Time Zone. Nothing happens till 1PM EST and by 1AM EST everyone is sleeping while they are announcing stuff

Marlins talking with Minnesota on Rosario and Seattle on Haniger. Neither are close with Minnesota waiting to see how SP market goes(they are in on MadBum/Ryu and others) and Seattle asking crazy stuff still

Caleb Smith/Rosario big deal could work for both teams

Rosario sounds good, though I'm sure there'd be other pieces involved

[fish16]

Two problems with this. Any "big money" guy we'd want to go after, we'd be competing against other teams with bigger pockets. To be fair, we've not seen what this group is willing to spend, but I'm skeptical.

You're talking about front loading what we acquire so we can acquire a bigger name down the road - we're literally advocating doing the same thing with a FA signing. Now, I suppose you'd get prospects back too if you acquire a guy, but they also might provide less value (there's a reason said team is trying to get rid of them, after all).



Rosario sounds good, though I'm sure there'd be other pieces involved

Yes of course there would be a spending war so that is something that has to be taken into account for any free agent.

If we can get a guy like castellanos front loaded that’s another discussion and something I’d probably be fine with. I’ve made clear my issue is with a normal deal with consistent salaries for over 3 years

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I’d be hesitant to do Caleb for Rosario but if we can do some sort of deal around Caleb for Haniger I’d be ecstatic about that

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I see haniger has another 3 years of team control, Rosario only 2. What would be the point of trading a guy like Caleb for two years of an above average outfielder rather than just signing a stop gap like Dickerson or Puig? Why does it seem like they are so insistent on adding an outfield bat for two years via trade?

[rmc523]

Yes of course there would be a spending war so that is something that has to be taken into account for any free agent.

If we can get a guy like castellanos front loaded that’s another discussion and something I’d probably be fine with. I’ve made clear my issue is with a normal deal with consistent salaries for over 3 years

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I’d be hesitant to do Caleb for Rosario but if we can do some sort of deal around Caleb for Haniger I’d be ecstatic about that

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I see haniger has another 3 years of team control, Rosario only 2. What would be the point of trading a guy like Caleb for two years of an above average outfielder rather than just signing a stop gap like Dickerson or Puig? Why does it seem like they are so insistent on adding an outfield bat for two years via trade?

Every mention of Castellanos on this site has mentioned frontloading the deal.

Anyway.......maybe they're trying to acquire guys they'd consider/like to extend longer term rather than the just plain 2-year stopgaps.

i.e. "good younger player with 2 years of control, but we view as an extension candidate" vs. "2-year cast of stop gap only"

[lou]

It's 3/96! Not 66!

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Side note, the Cubs apparently aren't going to discuss an extension with Rizzo this offseason.

Yikes on Price!

And that's exactly why you blow them away for Rizzo

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Correct, which is also the reason why he has never been brought back up to the big league team I believe. But 13.5 million is 13.5 million and that can help them in betts contract discussions so it’s not completely irrelevant to what the purpose of a deal like that would be

Just pointing out, I agree with this (we did it). Money is money. He's worth something in a prospect to dump

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You’ve literally already said in the past when I brought up the injury that he’s a ss and it’s not a big deal to you. Don’t act like it all of a sudden changed the entire argument. The entire discussion came with the knowledge of him coming off Tommy John surgery

Also, his .718 opa last year is not like it’s this enormous drop off to his career ops. He’s 29 years old with a career ops of .742, and has never had an obp of over .335 and has now had 5 different years of an obp of less than .320 where he had 270+ ab’s. You overrated him, like I said for months. It’s not like this entire discussion didn’t come with the knowledge that he was coming off Tommy John surgery

Edit- actually confused Lou with namaste who said that you can come back from Tommy John with a strong arm but the point remains that the entire discussion was with the knowledge that he is coming off Tommy John surgery

I respect the editorial note at the bottom.

If Didi was healthy, then he was worth a 4 year deal. But that became irrelevant with Jazz, Sanchez, and Lewin.

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Every mention of Castellanos on this site has mentioned frontloading the deal.

It sure has.

It's using payroll as a weapon - paying guys early to max out 2022/2023.

Absorbing bad contracts for prospects, ala Myers or whoever.

[fish16]

My mistake then. Wouldn’t be my favorite move but I’m all for free agent signings where we heavily front load the deals.

[rmc523]

Craig Mish

Verified account

@CraigMish
8m8 minutes ago
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Marlins have also done due diligence on Corey Dickerson and Kole Calhoun. Seem to like both. Again it’s a cost vs reward deal on them. Marlins have a pipeline of top players coming. Dickerson I’ve heard in particular from many carries a high price tag. 6 teams in on him.

[fauowls44]

Joe Frisaro
@JoeFrisaro
The #Marlins push for more hitting is heating up here at #WinterMeetings Free agency remains the most practical avenue and Kole Calhoun is someone to monitor.

[Nick]

What would be the point of bringing in Kole Calhoun? He'd be the definition of a scab, like Granderson and Walker before him. I'd rather just play Harold Ramirez.