2018 Spring Training

[fish16]

For the life of me i never understand the outrage from baseball people when these things happen. Keith Law is bitching about Acuna and Mish is complaining about Alcantara. In what world would any smart business trade a few weeks of a rookie for an entire year of a guy hopefully in his prime 6 years from now. Complain about the rules, not the smart business practices.

[Nick]

Agreed the rule sucks, gotta find a better way. That being said if I'm a Braves fan I'm probably a little pissed, they've been rebuilding for a while now.

[fish16]

Agreed the rule sucks, gotta find a better way. That being said if I'm a Braves fan I'm probably a little pissed, they've been rebuilding for a while now.

it's 2 weeks and they arent contending this year anyways cause their pitching is still a year away. Im sure Cubs fans that were pissed when they did it with Bryant for 2 weeks and now they get an entire extra year of Bryant coming up in the next few years. Its literally and extra 500+ AB's you can get out of a potential superstar. Change the rules if they dont like it.

[Nick]

I didn't know it was only two weeks.

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also I don't think fans can change the rules.

[fish16]

I didn't know it was only two weeks.

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also I don't think fans can change the rules.

It is for Acuna and it was for Bryant. I think it would be too for Brinson and Alcantara if they werent called up last year. I wasnt saying fans can change the rules, im talking about the MLBPA consistently bitching about shit that is explicitly allowed under rules they collectively bargained. You dont want teams to spend so little? Negotiate a salary floor. Dont want teams to smartly manipulate service times for a few weeks to get an entire extra year of control 6 years down the road? Negotiate it when the cba comes up. Quit the bitching that is happening solely because they got worked in the CBA negotiations.

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Damn Stanton went off on the marlins and the previous regime in a new SI article. Also showed how he called their bluff super hard on the giants/cardinals thing.

[Nick]

link?

[fish16]

https://www.si.com/mlb/2018/03/20/gi...low_twitter_si

[lou]

I didn't know it was only two weeks.

The MLB annual calendar is 182 days this season, and a year of service time is considered 172 days. They build in 10 freebie days.

So if a player has 0 MLB experience, it's basically keeping someone down 11 days of the season and they will end this year with .171 days of service time, so they don't get to the magical 6th year in 6 years, it takes 7. Kris Bryant has 2.171 days of service time and it's obviously not by accident. I have to imagine Acuna ends this season with .171, So yea, it's not even 2 weeks, it's really 11 days.

Problem with the Marlins is Brinson, Anderson, Sierra, Peters, and Alcantara were September call ups and got 20-30 days of time, so now you are at 11+however many days up last year days to get to the elusive .171 days of service time. Those guys need to be down until various May dates (also Garcia and Conley can be manipulated with basically 1 and 2 years of service time respectively). I did the math at some point and Brinson is May 8th +/- a day or two.

They will of course be Super 2s with .171 days, but you get the year of control and you obviously get the importance. Just mentioning the math here.

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Alcantara optioned to AAA this morning along with Wittgren and Lee. That leaves Despainge, Smith, Turner, and Nicolino in the mix for the 3-5 spots. I'm fairly confident that Despainge will get a spot in the rotation...possibly Smith as well. But there has to be better options out there than Nicolino and Turner...I'm hoping we are scouring the market for another veteran starter at this point. I suppose they could also be waiting on Hernandez to return.

And this is great. Deflect Alcantara. Who cares about the rest.

They need a 5th starter 4-5 times until mid-May, so it's really just a 1-4 scenario and then having two guys ready for 3 IP the other days. I think they are fine here. Peters or Garcia is going to come up and be the 5 I imagine.

I think Despaigne is a lock, and they'll turn to Ca. Smith first who has more upside than Turner and Nicolino who can be the 8th and 9th relievers. It'll sort itself out when the shellings begin.

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Also, I saw a mention that someone has floated making September call ups not part of a service time calculation. Teams can try out guys to get some film for next year, and they can make it a hard "6" years thereafter so you can't manufacture a 7th season. Something like, if you are up more than 10 days in any season between March-August, it counts as "1" season. Treat it like options, not days.

So you get a September (maybe even 2?), and 6 years to max out a player once on a MLB roster in any non-September month. That seems patently reasonable and avoids Brinson, Acuna, Calhoun, Bryant, Fernandez, Alcantara, etc. service time debates of recent years. Would kind of be fun also as September would be the great 40 man prospect call up and get a glimpse of some guys even if 1-2 years away. This helps veterans keep jobs also, because teams will be conscious of blowing a year on a guy, which I think the player union also wants.

Anyways, food for thought. I agree, some change is needed. I think something like above will eventually happen. The current system of "punishing" a team with a Super 2 arbitration year means nothing compared to a full year of control of Kris Bryant.

[fish16]

I think just making it so that if you are called up at any time (not including september call ups) that automatically starts a 6 year time period of team control and makes service time manipulation impossible (again, aside from waiting until september to call someone up.

[Nick]

https://www.si.com/mlb/2018/03/20/gi...low_twitter_si

Nothing really new here, just basically confirms that the players viewed the ownership and the overall situation of the ballclub pretty much the same way we did as fans.

[fish16]

Jesus now straily is apparently dealing with an elbow strain.

[Nick]

Strainly

[Lee Stone]

just disappointing to see Cahill get 1.25M and Hellickson a minor league deal and we're going to waste a year of Alcantara due to a strong spring

How has Alcantara had a strong spring? He's been hit hard and hasn't gotten control of his W rate.

[lou]

I think just making it so that if you are called up at any time (not including september call ups) that automatically starts a 6 year time period of team control and makes service time manipulation impossible (again, aside from waiting until september to call someone up.

That's hard if a guy falters and needs another year in the minors. But the concept is the same for options. If you are up for 10 days, it's a year of service time.

It's not the best example given the stature of the player, but the only one I can think of quickly is Ortega, who was in the minors all last year. I don't think that should count as a MLB season just because he was up for a lot of PA in 2016. Likewise, what if Garcia is a 160 IP starter in AA/AAA this year? Marlins shouldn't lose a year on that.

They would have to think through the loopholes, but teams would also be subject to 40 man rosters/club options which protects manipulation. The worst case scenario I can think of is someone like the Marlins this year determining they aren't going to contend so no one is being called up until September. That could practically happen, but objectively it is probably an extremely low probability some team would have the balls to do that.

Just saying. There will be something done. Baseball doesn't need 11 days dictating a year of service time and bad press.

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How has Alcantara had a strong spring? He's been hit hard and hasn't gotten control of his W rate.

Do you mean BBs? If so, let's call them BBs.

And yes, he had a decent spring, but clearly needs some more slow cooking in the minors. Plus deflecting service time.

[fish16]

That's hard if a guy falters and needs another year in the minors. But the concept is the same for options. If you are up for 10 days, it's a year of service time.

It's not the best example given the stature of the player, but the only one I can think of quickly is Ortega, who was in the minors all last year. I don't think that should count as a MLB season just because he was up for a lot of PA in 2016. Likewise, what if Garcia is a 160 IP starter in AA/AAA this year? Marlins shouldn't lose a year on that.

They would have to think through the loopholes, but teams would also be subject to 40 man rosters/club options which protects manipulation. The worst case scenario I can think of is someone like the Marlins this year determining they aren't going to contend so no one is being called up until September. That could practically happen, but objectively it is probably an extremely low probability some team would have the balls to do that.

Just saying. There will be something done. Baseball doesn't need 11 days dictating a year of service time and bad press.

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Do you mean BBs? If so, let's call them BBs.

And yes, he had a decent spring, but clearly needs some more slow cooking in the minors. Plus deflecting service time.

True, then maybe any time a player spends X amount of days in the majors thats a year of service time.