Marlins 2017-2018 Offseason Discussion Thread

[tjfla]

I'm fine with no Kieboom, but you might need one of the young guys.

Soto, pick 1 Fedde/Romero/Crow/Antuna/Garcia, Read/Severino, and pick a C+ arm (Nick Raquet maybe?) is still a good package. Also no probs with Wieters+$5 million or a straight Wieters-Zielger/Tazawa swap as a kicker.

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I don't care if he hits .800 with 20 HR in spring training. May 8th.

If he hits .800 with 20 HR, it's actually probably more of an argument to keep him down.

Agree with u on this and probably what they are holding out for.

Again I am with u-only guys I even consider to call up are Anderson,Braxton Lee. Brinson,Sierra,Pitchers ALL stay down

[fish16]

I dont think Sierra is even a question, he's clearly not ready. I really do think though that they will have Brinson up there right away. Just a feeling. Anderson will 100% be on the major league roster to start the year too i think.

[rmc523]

Susac was traded to the Orioles for cash or a PTBNL.

[sports24/7]

At no point in my post did i say all top 5 propects become stars. In fact i explicitly said that obviously prospects arent known commodities. But Robles is ML ready, they have an OF need, he has absolutely dominated every level he's been at at a young age for each level, and he even came up in September and held his own at 20 years old. 6 years of the potential of him being a star level 4-5 tool prospect is worth more than JT.

And again, if Realmuto doesnt sign an extension they absolutely do have to trade him. The notion that he wont re-sign is based on the fact that he's already requested a trade and upcoming years of terrible teams is likely not going to want to make him re-sign any more. You can take your chances, but when he inevitably doesnt re-sign here you've now lost the value youre complaining about not getting currently, let alone the possibility of losing him for nothing just to have him on terrible teams the next fe years.

I expect the nationals to come up on their offer because i dont think the marlins will trade him unless they get Soto and the nationals are going to go all in in harper's last year to try to convince him to re-sign. Its evident from the free agents they have been reported to be interested in. And I think they really need to get Soto and id probably not make the deal otherwise, but that doesnt mean there isnt a deal somewhere in there that would be good value. It would have to be a package of like 5 guys, but its not impossible. Id prefer and would likely holdout for the top prospect future potential star, but that doesnt mean there isnt a good potential deal in there without him.

You've also continued to say time and time again that the marlins have had to come down on their asking price on every deal without any actual evidence of that. If you mean that they ask for a guy like Acuna or Anthony Reyes then no shit they are gonna have to come down on their asking price. They arent coming down on their asking price because they are terrible negotiators, its because their initial asking price is absurd and never had a chance to begin with.

Again, I was dissapointed that Alcantara was the headliner in the deal. Ive said so numerous times. That doesnt mean I cant both have wanted a safer headliner in the deal in Flaherty while also acknowledging that I really liked the remaining package they ended up getting which was likely due in part to taking a riskier headliner. Not to mention they appeared to be going for more quantity in exchange for a little lesser quality from the headliner as a means of addressing the complete lack of depth in the system. Thats been apparent in the Phelps, Ozuna, and Dee trade and Jeter and Hill have flat out come out and say that explicitly.

And i disagree that they arent managing their value well. The Yelich trade was great. Ozuna trade gave us good quantity and essentially rides on Alcantara and what he becomes, but that doesnt mean they didnt get good value. Also, assessing the value of prospects they got before any of them play a game in any marlins affiliates uniforms is just nonsense. Im not saying they did or didnt get great value, but you have no idea at this point. The Miguel trade looked like great value too and it was terrible. If you want to come back a year or 2 from now and assess how they did, fine, but to consistently complain about the value they got in prospects you've never even seen play is kind of ridiculous.

So you didn't say "top 5 guys are just about as certain assets"?

Realmuto doesn't have to sign an extension right now. They have 3 more years to do so. If they offer him a good deal, he could very easily take it even if the team isn't good as long as they can convince him to buy in. We have no idea what the communication has been like since that initial report. Could he lose value? Sure, although a non-Soto deal from Washington is stretching the term "value". He could also increase it. If he comes out and has a good year, teams will be more inclined to pay up for him.

Once again you say you expect the Marlins to negotiate Washington up to their asking price, and then qualify that if they don't they can still make a good deal, which they really can't. I don't care if it's 5 prospects or 10. The Nationals just don't have enough high end prospects to make that a worthwhile trade.

The Marlins HAVE had to come down on their asking price. We heard they asked for a bunch of better propsects for the Yankees before being turned down, and ultimately settling on the Guzman package. They reportedly asked the Blue Jays for Guererro AND Bichette, and wouldn't accept less for Ozuna. That's a hell of a difference between where they started and where they finished with the Alcantara package. We know they asked for players like Acuna, Robles, and Guererro for Yelich before coming down to the Brinson package. It doesn't matter what the reasons are, they have had to come down from their asking price on all of these deals, except the Gordon one. And when they come down in this one, I'm sure there will be excuses of why they had to as well.

You expressed dissatisfaction with the trade, and then once it was final changed it to the deal being good. You can try to word it how you want, but you knew it wasn't a great deal, but since we're stuck with it, now want to believe it will be so you're saying it's good. Again, I appreciate your optimism, but on the surface it is a disappointing return for a really good player.

They have gotten pennies on the dollar for some really good players. I understand the need to move Stanton's contract, but I think they could have done better on most of these deals if they played it better. The Yelich deal is fine, but in no way is it great. Brinson, the best player in the deal, could very easily become Preston Wilson. I hope he becomes a star, but that's far from a guarantee.

[fish16]

So you didn't say "top 5 guys are just about as certain assets"?

Realmuto doesn't have to sign an extension right now. They have 3 more years to do so. If they offer him a good deal, he could very easily take it even if the team isn't good as long as they can convince him to buy in. We have no idea what the communication has been like since that initial report. Could he lose value? Sure, although a non-Soto deal from Washington is stretching the term "value". He could also increase it. If he comes out and has a good year, teams will be more inclined to pay up for him.

Once again you say you expect the Marlins to negotiate Washington up to their asking price, and then qualify that if they don't they can still make a good deal, which they really can't. I don't care if it's 5 prospects or 10. The Nationals just don't have enough high end prospects to make that a worthwhile trade.

The Marlins HAVE had to come down on their asking price. We heard they asked for a bunch of better propsects for the Yankees before being turned down, and ultimately settling on the Guzman package. They reportedly asked the Blue Jays for Guererro AND Bichette, and wouldn't accept less for Ozuna. That's a hell of a difference between where they started and where they finished with the Alcantara package. We know they asked for players like Acuna, Robles, and Guererro for Yelich before coming down to the Brinson package. It doesn't matter what the reasons are, they have had to come down from their asking price on all of these deals, except the Gordon one. And when they come down in this one, I'm sure there will be excuses of why they had to as well.

You expressed dissatisfaction with the trade, and then once it was final changed it to the deal being good. You can try to word it how you want, but you knew it wasn't a great deal, but since we're stuck with it, now want to believe it will be so you're saying it's good. Again, I appreciate your optimism, but on the surface it is a disappointing return for a really good player.

They have gotten pennies on the dollar for some really good players. I understand the need to move Stanton's contract, but I think they could have done better on most of these deals if they played it better. The Yelich deal is fine, but in no way is it great. Brinson, the best player in the deal, could very easily become Preston Wilson. I hope he becomes a star, but that's far from a guarantee.

Implied in "just about as certain as assets get" is that it does not mean that they are a sure thing. They are as close to a sure thing as it gets. That doesnt mean they are guaranteed stars, but they are the closest thing to it in terms of prospects. The fact that you then get them for team control for cheap for 6 years gives them absurd value.

I have said if he will sign an extension between now and the deadline, you do it in a heartbeat. But waiting and hoping to do it in the next 3 years until his free agency is a great way to eventually diminish his value and possibly lose him for nothing or trade him for a much reduced price if you wait until, say, the trade deadline the year of his free agency. Especially considering there will be extensive losing going on for the next 2 years at least and he's already requested a trade, the likelihood that he's gonna be happier with the organization in 2 years going into his free agency is not high. It's possible you can convince him, but where we are in year 1 of a rebuild with our current farm system, you get the prospects and continue developing the prospects for 2020 and further on and dont take the risk of diminishing his value. A lot of his value is tied into the fact that he has 3 years of team control remaining.

I think they can make some sort of deal that adds up to JT's value without Soto, but i probably wouldnt do it without him just given our lack of star power in the system. We could probably get JT's value in a big 5 for 1 type deal is all im saying just going based upon what i think JT's value actually is, but i also probably wouldnt do that given our current system and how many other guys we can trade for mid level prospects from now until the deadline. We need stars and thats why id prefer to do a quality over quantity trade for JT in particular. My only point was that there is possibly some sort of package that value wise could add up to JT, not that that id want them to take that if they wouldnt relent on not trading soto.

The marlins have had to come down on their asking price because they went in big dicking it and asked for a ridiculous package of Bichette and Vlad Jr. It doesnt hurt to ask, but there was also 0 chance that was ever going to happen. You can call it coming down on their asking price or frame it however you want, but I view that as reality setting in and the true value of their assets being established based on the offers available in the market.

I did not express dissatisfaction with the trade, I initially expressed dissatisfaction with Alcantara being the led guy in the deal, and im still dissatisfied with that as I like Flaherty as a safer SP prospect, but as ive stated now multiple times its not mutually exclusive to have wanted Flaherty as the lead guy and still like the total package they ended up receiving in the end.

In no way have they gotten pennies on the dollar for any of them. You could argue the Stanton trade, but i think we both agree there are extenuating circumstances to that deal that make it difficult to grade their return, i.e. the full NTC and the biggest contract in sports history.

[fish16]

Bour won his arbitration case. Gets 3.4 rather than the 3 the marlins offered.

[Ralph]

JT lost. Poor guy. Trade him already.

[fish16]

WOW. the marlins won the JT case too. gets the 2.9 the marlins offered instead of the 3.5 he wanted.

[rmc523]

WOW. the marlins won the JT case too. gets the 2.9 the marlins offered instead of the 3.5 he wanted.

I thought it'd have been the opposite (Bour losing, and JT winning).

[tjfla]

WOW. the marlins won the JT case too. gets the 2.9 the marlins offered instead of the 3.5 he wanted.

Alex Avila got 2/8.75

[fish16]

I thought it'd have been the opposite (Bour losing, and JT winning).

Same. They are both in their first year of arbitration too, right? Would make sense if one was in their 2nd year and the other their 1st, but im fairly certain they are both in their first year. Although Bour has been a really damn good hitter every year he's been healthy.

[lou]

That is very surprising. I can't believe Realmuto lost and Bour won. Maybe the arbitrators got confused.

It's really criminal with what JT has done the last two years.

[fish16]

That is very surprising. I can't believe Realmuto lost and Bour won. Maybe the arbitrators got confused.

It's really criminal with what JT has done the last two years.

what are compareables for other catchers in their first year of arbitration?

[Namaste]

JT must be full TILTING right now.

[Nick]

JT's trade value goes up now right?

Give us Robles.