Miami Marlins 2016 Offseason Discussion Thread

[fish16]

For his next trick, he should somehow build Miami into a perennial contender with Loria at the top....hahaha

As bad as loria is, it's not impossible to build a winner here. But when our front office is almost as bad at their job as Loria is as an owner, you dont make the playoffs for 15 years.

[Erick]

I like Soler, but he isn't "premium price". Plus it's worth it to keep a great closer and not pay $86 million for it. Chapman trade was clearly worth it since he was a big part in them winning a WS.

It's part of the benefit of drafting well, having international free agent money and having a smart front office when making free agent signings. You can sacrifice a player who would be a top prospect in multiple systems but was just a #4 outfielder for them.

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Soler probably has a better future than the 1st round pick many people don't want to lose.

[MiamiHomer]

So apparently Kenley Jansen's wedding was today which might be why no decision has been made.

[fish16]

Soler probably has a better future than the 1st round pick many people don't want to lose.

No offense, and while that might be true, that is just bad logic. The 25th guy on any MLB roster has a better future than any first round pick simply because its a crapshoot to draft anyone in the first round. A large percentage of them dont make it to the majors. That doesnt make someone like Chris Johnson more valuable than a first round pick. Obviously Chris Johnson is an extreme example and Soler is a better player, but that is just twisting the logic.

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Not to mention Soler would have been a first round pick if he was born here and not cuba.

[sports24/7]

No offense, and while that might be true, that is just bad logic. The 25th guy on any MLB roster has a better future than any first round pick simply because its a crapshoot to draft anyone in the first round. A large percentage of them dont make it to the majors. That doesnt make someone like Chris Johnson more valuable than a first round pick. Obviously Chris Johnson is an extreme example and Soler is a better player, but that is just twisting the logic.

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Not to mention Soler would have been a first round pick if he was born here and not cuba.

I don't think it's twisting the logic. Would the Royals trade Soler for the 13th pick? I don't think there's any chance. That was his point. Value is value, and my original point was what is more valuable, a good young player, or a lot of money?

I like Soler, but he isn't "premium price". Plus it's worth it to keep a great closer and not pay $86 million for it. Chapman trade was clearly worth it since he was a big part in them winning a WS.

It's part of the benefit of drafting well, having international free agent money and having a smart front office when making free agent signings. You can sacrifice a player who would be a top prospect in multiple systems but was just a #4 outfielder for them.

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We can debate the semantics of what a premium truly means, but my point was that they gave up valuable assets on their team and in their system to get both Chapman and Davis. Chapman obviously worked out, but your point was letting him go because of his price and getting Davis, not what he already gave them. There was already sunken cost in Chapman. We'll see how it plays out, but at the end of the day they gave up legitimate value to get those guys rather than spending money. Time will tell whether it was good asset management or not.

[fish16]

I don't think it's twisting the logic. Would the Royals trade Soler for the 13th pick? I don't think there's any chance. That was his point. Value is value, and my original point was what is more valuable, a good young player, or a lot of money?



We can debate the semantics of what a premium truly means, but my point was that they gave up valuable assets on their team and in their system to get both Chapman and Davis. Chapman obviously worked out, but your point was letting him go because of his price and getting Davis, not what he already gave them. There was already sunken cost in Chapman. We'll see how it plays out, but at the end of the day they gave up legitimate value to get those guys rather than spending money. Time will tell whether it was good asset management or not.

I would have no problem if the marlins are a contender and wanted a lights out closer to put them over the edge if it meant giving up a first round pick. My only issue is that I dont think they are a piece away, and collecting assets is a lot more important as a rebuilding team than a closer that can be found so much easier than any other position. T

But ya i see your point.

[rmc523]

I would have no problem if the marlins are a contender and wanted a lights out closer to put them over the edge if it meant giving up a first round pick. My only issue is that I dont think they are a piece away, and collecting assets is a lot more important as a rebuilding team than a closer that can be found so much easier than any other position. T

But ya i see your point.

We get it lol.

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In other news, the Cardinals are signing Fowler....contracts details aren't known right now.

[HUGG]

They keep playing with Jansen and Tazawa/Ziegler will be gone next

Cut bait with Jansen. Sign Ziegler and Tazawa then use money on Trumbo

Trumbo since 2014: .253/.309/.477
Bour since 2014: .265/.335/.467

I mean, maybe 2016 is the new normal for Trumbo, but it'd be a lot of money to find out. He could play every day whereas Bour can't, but I'd rather they just find a dude who mashes lefties somewhere.

Encarnacion, on the other hand, is clearly an upgrade, but I'm not giving a 3-4 year deal to a guy who turns 34 in January. If we could get him short-term, maybe.

[dim]

Yeah Trumbo isn't worth the time. We need power but Trumbo is literally just that and not much else.

Encarnacion would be a real upgrade but I don't see us trying. I'd be willing to try for him if jansen now fails and the market for him fell enough to warrant a good value.

Just gotta hope jansen makes his decision tomorrow so we can decide what else to move on to.

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[fish16]

I didnt realize Bautista was a free agent too. Him or Encarnacion would be huge. then move Ozuna/Bour + for a starter depending on who we get, and our lineup and rotation is improved.

[rmc523]

I didnt realize Bautista was a free agent too. Him or Encarnacion would be huge. then move Ozuna/Bour + for a starter depending on who we get, and our lineup and rotation is improved.

Where would he play if you're shipping Bour out and keeping Ozuna? Put him at 1B? He's played 22 games there. And outfield when you give other guys days off.....he's also 36, whereas Encarnacion is 33.

[fish16]

Where would he play if you're shipping Bour out and keeping Ozuna? Put him at 1B? He's played 22 games there. And outfield when you give other guys days off.....he's also 36, whereas Encarnacion is 33.

I was saying move Bour if we sign EE, and Ozuna if we sign Bautista. And ya, i would prefer EE due to age and Bautista has had injury issues.

[rmc523]

Ah, I follow now. I think as the offseason drags along, the likelihood of Encarnacion signing a shorter-term "pillow" contract increases. Meaning his contract demands might continue to lower to where we could get him.

[tjfla]

So apparently Kenley Jansen's wedding was today which might be why no decision has been made.

Not the reason but gives Frisaro(I mean Namaste)/Spencer hope that he is still coming here

Jansen's agent has been handling it all-the delay was they wanted to wait till Chapman signed so that they could get a deal close to him. They didn't want to sign for 80 million and then see Chapman get 100 million. Chapman's market came in and Jansen has a Miami offer around 75-80 million. He really wants to stay in LA and his agent has been talking them trying to get an offer close to ours. Not hard to fax/email a contract and have him sign it-doubt his wife will be mad if he takes an hour away to sign an 80 million dollar deal

Good story from NY tho-like I had mentioned everyone knew NYY was getting Chapman and they would beat any offer for him. Well we gave Chapman the offer and his agent went back to NYY to say beat it and of course they did. But reports are Jeff cost the Yanks 10-15 million dollars more

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Ah, I follow now. I think as the offseason drags along, the likelihood of Encarnacion signing a shorter-term "pillow" contract increases. Meaning his contract demands might continue to lower to where we could get him.

Stupid question but whats up with all this Encarnacion talk?? Havent heard his name with us at all. Trumbo/Fowler/Plouffe/Carter yes but not any of the Toronto guys

[rmc523]

Stupid question but whats up with all this Encarnacion talk?? Havent heard his name with us at all. Trumbo/Fowler/Plouffe/Carter yes but not any of the Toronto guys

A few guys on MLB Network Radio have mentioned it as a potential good surprise fit given his current market (not at the beginning of the offseason) and how most of his speculated destinations have already filled their vacancies with other options.

Beyond that, it's just speculation on my/others' parts that maybe we could steal him on a short high value deal to add a major offensive piece to the lineup if we are indeed going for it.

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Though not talking about the Marlins (he mentioned Rangers or Indians as fits), Jim Bowden just proposed the exact contract for Encarnacion that I proposed yesterday. - 3/$60 with an opt out after year 1, front loading it (example, $24M in year one).