Cameron Maybin Thread: Maybin Some Discussion, Maybin Some Fighting, It's All Good!

[FishFanInPA]

Go back in your cave

My cave has lollipops and chocolate bars and all is pleasant and bright. Yours is a dungeon of doom and hate.

[Party]

Ramp's dungeon has vagina in it though.

[MiamiHomer]

This thread has no bounds.

[FishFanInPA]

Ramp's dungeon has vagina in it though.

His own.

[Bobbob1313]

So bobbob is the only one allowed to bring skeletons out of the closest....I see. BUT DON'T DO IT TO HIM OR HE'LL RUN!!!

And yeah, he did show something last September but have we forgotten:

SSS


Shit, Maybin may make a flashy catch or hits a ball on the line once a game, but he has been a failure at doing it over extended periods. Isn't that the whole point about this debate?

Who brought skeletons out of my closet that made me run? that I was wrong about Nolasco and Volstad? I "ran" from that? I'm pretty sure you don't read then. I made it pretty abundantly clear why I didn't feel like having that discussion last night, but you can believe whatever you want.

And shit for that matter, who is bringing skeletons out now? Let's go back to September of last year and see how many people were down on Maybin. See how many people were criticizing his approach and saying he's shown nothing. These aren't skeletons, this is people selectively choosing what they see about Maybin.

They see April. They see strikeouts on breaking balls in the dirt. They see a GIDP last night.

They don't see him hit the ball hard as he has since he's been up. They don't see him improving his plate discipline (to a level that is pretty well in line with his minor league career). They forget that not a soul was criticizing him last September. I mean, honestly if it was so obvious that he's not ready, where was everyone a year ago?

And hell, Maybin's entire career is made up of small sample sizes. To ignore the good is just as foolish as ignoring the bad. You guys keep saying he's shown "nothing". That simply isn't true. Yes, he's struggled to be consistently productive, but I don't buy that he looks absolutely lost out there at all times. Young players struggle to find consistency, yes.

This is, I believe, the great divide between myself and Lou and somebody like Swift. Lou and I tend to look at things through teal colored glasses, and I won't deny that, but I think we also look at what a player has done in the past and what part of what they are doing now is most likely to be repeatable. Swift, on the other hand, puts all of the emphesis on what he sees, which is fine for him, but it doesn't mean jack shit in a discussion where nobody else gets to look through your eyes. You might be right sometimes, but the way you get there is often times completely wrong.

I'll concede that I'm an optimist. I'm a fan, why shouldn't I be? But that doesn't mean I don't see negatives. I think, if anyone's read my posts, they'll see that I've conceded that he hasn't shown enough consistently. But I can't say he's shown nothing. Why do we have to speak in fucking extremes anyways?

[Beef]

Swift, wanna go to spring training games next year with me and be the guys from Major League that only talk about how much they hate the team and how much the team sucks?

[Bobbob1313]

I mean, can put together an 8 game streak where he is flat out awesome, but the consensus still is he has not shown anything at the ML level because he doesn't do it on a consistent basis.

I've been pretty hard on Boner, but I would never say he hasn't shown anything at the major league level. Maybe that's just me, but I see things about him that I like. Maybe this is just me being an optimist again, but there are things about him that I think can make him a useful player. This doesn't mean I want him leading off or that I don't think he is probably the number one reason we aren't going to the playoffs, but I just don't think he's shown nothing. Now, if you want to qualify it by saying they haven't shown they can consistently produce, that's one thing, but that isn't "shown nothing". Not by a long shot.

[Ramp]

Swift, wanna go to spring training games next year with me and be the guys from Major League that only talk about how much they hate the team and how much the team sucks?

Wild Thing. You make my heart sing. You walk everything.
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My cave has lollipops and chocolate bars and all is pleasant and bright. Yours is a dungeon of doom and hate.

realism and awesomeness.

[nny]

Man I hate things like "the problem is his swing" because if he starts doing well "he fixed his swing" even if he didn't do anything to his swing. This isn't pointed directed at you swift, I said the same thing to Sashami gal in the hermida thread. But there are almost no control and so many variables and things we just don't know that I hate reasoning like that. Normally it's just seeing what you want to see, normally it's just explaining how you want to explain it.

When it comes down to it, Maybin will only be as good as his strike outs allow him to be. He's already hitting for BABIP, he's already walking a lot, he's hitting for OK power. below average but not slap hitter like and with his power you can almost always count on growth.

But he's striking out 35% of the time this year, 35% of the time in his career, and now 33% of the time in September. This isn't really surprising with his 30% career K rate in the minors prior to this season.

I mean, if he continues to K 35% of the time, we're talking about the high 600% OPS bat he has been. 30%, low 700. 25%, mid 700. 20% (average), high 700. And that's all with room to grow in power and babip.

And he only struck out 19% of the time this year in AAA, so there is reason to be optimistic about it. Does he continue like that, does it translate? Who knows. But at least he has shown he can cut his strike out rate down.

Also, he definitely has hit the ball harder this time around. He already almost has as many LD's in september as he did at the start of the year lol. 16.7% LD rate. Still hitting a ground ball 60% so sigh at that.

[Beef]

The idea that saying things like his swing is the problem isn't necessarily wrong. To just always say I fucking hate that line of thinking is pretty silly. That's one reason teams have coaches. Sometimes players DO tweak something, in their swing or approach, that allows them to better succeed at the plate. Just sticking to fucking statistics all the time doesn't show shit and to simply say he is better because his BABIP did this also doesn't necessarily explain why things got better just like perhaps saying, must've fixed his swing might not be right. Might be right though.

[Bobbob1313]

The problem is a coach might specifically knwo what is wrong. That's fine.

But if all you are bringing to the table is "His swing is long" then it doesn't do anything. Like I said, Albert Pujols has a long swing and isn't necessarily swinging very hard, but he's awesome.

If you want to say he has a long swing and also swings really fast and that causes him to not be able to make adjustments to breaking balls, and that's why he strikes out so much, that's one thing. But just "he has a long swing" means nothing.

[Beef]

And he gon be good because his BABIP has been this and his BB% has been this and so other things will have to improve and balls will drop also means nothing

[nny]

The idea that saying things like his swing is the problem isn't necessarily wrong. To just always say I fucking hate that line of thinking is pretty silly. That's one reason teams have coaches. Sometimes players DO tweak something, in their swing or approach, that allows them to better succeed at the plate. Just sticking to fucking statistics all the time doesn't show shit and to simply say he is better because his BABIP did this also doesn't necessarily explain why things got better just like perhaps saying, must've fixed his swing might not be right. Might be right though.

there's a difference between a ML coach and joe smoe in front of a computer
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And he gon be good because his BABIP has been this and his BB% has been this and so other things will have to improve and balls will drop also means nothing

what

[Bobbob1313]

And he gon be good because his BABIP has been this and his BB% has been this and so other things will have to improve and balls will drop also means nothing

I disagree. Stating with 100% certainty he will be good because of those things means nothing. Just like stating with 100% certainty that he will struggle because of a long swing means nothing.

What means something is taking a subjective look at what he's done and making educated guesses on what he could do in the future. That means a whole lot more to me than "He has a long swing."

[Beef]

there's a difference between a ML coach and joe smoe in front of a computer
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what

huh?