Jorge Cantu

[Swifty]

Just like blowing up the '05 team meant long term deals for Miggy and Dontrelle.

Yep, we're the tards.

[Bobbob1313]

Bob, I realize that you enjoy needling Swift, but when you start using a 34.4 million dollar payroll as a justification for anything positive, there's a problem.

Really?

He said "money doesn't get reinvested in to the team."

It doesn't matter how much total money they spent this year, it was still 13 million more than the year before. To quote Swift, "It's not like this is fucking hard." 34,000,000 > 21,000,000. By a lot.

I mean, Swift was the dude bitching that we traded Mike Jacobs lost year and saying that we were going to miss him. Well, we didn't, and hey guess what, that money got reinvested in the team and we got better. I know it doesn't fit into the "omg the front office hates everything except swimming in giant pools filled with gold coins" mindset Swift is stuck in, but what he said was absolutely incorrect.
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Just like blowing up the '05 team meant long term deals for Miggy and Dontrelle.

Yep, we're the tards.

Just like you knew we'd win 64 games last year, and knew we'd miss mike jacobs, and you knew we wouldn't add any kind of impact player at the deadline, etc etc etc. We may not sign JJ to a long term deal, but we may. You are eternally negative, so I'm not sure you're opinion on this is very good. We already did with Hanley (though I'm sure if we went back to before he signed it you were probably saying "Lol he gon get traded because Loria is a tardo"), and there have been indications we will try with JJ.

[Flum]

Really?

He said "money doesn't get reinvested in to the team."

It doesn't matter how much total money they spent this year, it was still 13 million more than the year before. To quote Swift, "It's not like this is fucking hard." 34,000,000 > 21,000,000. By a lot.

I mean, Swift was the dude bitching that we traded Mike Jacobs lost year and saying that we were going to miss him. Well, we didn't, and hey guess what, that money got reinvested in the team and we got better. I know it doesn't fit into the "omg the front office hates everything except swimming in giant pools filled with gold coins" mindset Swift is stuck in, but what he said was absolutely incorrect.

Oh, I understood your point and I wasn't questioning your reasoning (because you're right). I was making a parallel comment that a payroll 20 million dollars below the 25th percentile mark is not something that I'd ever be able to look at in a positive light.
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My problem is that this team is absurdly and unnecessarily cheap. My contention is not that they are unable to maintain this level of competitiveness, but that they shouldn't be satisfied with merely above average. With all of the subsidies coming in from MLB, they should have no problem retaining only their elite players while maintaining their cost effective style of management. I don't think we should keep the Ugglas, Hermidas and Jacobses of the world. But I do believe that we should (and that we're able to) keep players like Cabrera, Hanley, and Johnson.

I resent it as someone who grew up with this team and had season tickets in the 4 out of the last 6 seasons.

[Bobbob1313]

So how was I "Needling swift"?

He said something incorrect. They did in fact reinvest in the team. I understand the limitations of the front office, as does Swift. The difference is, all he does is bitch about it, whereas I accept it. If he wants to make his ridiculous analogy about a wife being beaten, or whatever, he can, but the fact of the matter is just because we do have limitations (which you can criticize to a point) doesn't mean you can just make shit up, which is what he did.

[Flum]

So how was I "Needling swift"?

He said something incorrect. They did in fact reinvest in the team. I understand the limitations of the front office, as does Swift. The difference is, all he does is bitch about it, whereas I accept it. If he wants to make his ridiculous analogy about a wife being beaten, or whatever, he can, but the fact of the matter is just because we do have limitations (which you can criticize to a point) doesn't mean you can just make shit up, which is what he did.

How were you needling him? You were continuing to provoke him. That's what needling means.

Just because something is factual or correct, doesn't mean that it's not provocative. Right?

[Ramp]

the use of the word tard in this thread is amazing

[Flum]

[lou]

My problem is that this team is absurdly and unnecessarily cheap. My contention is not that they are unable to maintain this level of competitiveness, but that they shouldn't be satisfied with merely above average. With all of the subsidies coming in from MLB, they should have no problem retaining only their elite players while maintaining their cost effective style of management. I don't think we should keep the Ugglas, Hermidas and Jacobses of the world. But I do believe that we should (and that we're able to) keep players like Cabrera, Hanley, and Johnson.

And from now on, we will. Cabrera would have been insanely expensive 2009-2011 and messed with fielding a team. We're now 2 years closer to the stadium, and really a year from having an enormously CC team with all the minor league hitters getting closer. We can afford two 4-5 year contracts right now, but Johnson is the only guy in the organization that deserves/needs a contract. Uggla would be to old at the back end of the deal. Cantu? No. Ross? eh maybe for like a 2 or 3 year deal, but with Maybin, Stanton, Cousins, and Petersen coming up the pipes going year-year is a better idea. Nolasco? No with his inconsistency and the arm threat of two huge IP years back to back. Hermida? No. We're all good here. We'll get rid of half the arbitration bats this year, half next year, and then go into 2012 with Hanley, Johnson, about 15 CC guys, and at least $30 million in payroll to spend on whatever we need. But I'm sure Swift will disagree we'll spend $60 in 2012.

But I have no problem maintaining our level of competitiveness for 2010. This is a fringe contender as is even if we keep all the arbitration bats. Everything has to go right with Volstad, West, and Miller for us to become contenders. It's all about keeping the pitching together and see if they can take the next step like the Rays staff 2 years ago.