Winter Meetings 2012 (Miami Marlins)

[lou]

That's one of the less informed posts here, especially from a purported 'insider.'

Every day that goes by Stanton gets closer to arbitration. The sooner Stanton gets to 7 figures, the less incentive he has to take a below market rate. By mid-season, it's very likely Stanton and his agent won't hear anything that doesn't start with a 9, and by the end of next season, it's even more likely they won't hear anything short of $100 mil.

This kid is the perfect storm for an agent. He's going to hit his scheduled free agency as a 26 year old. 26. A ten year deal is a layup assuming his limbs don't fall off. Assuming some kind of normalish inflation through 2016, it's not all that unlikely to say Stanton is on pace to break the $300 mil mark in guaranteed money.

So let's phrase this a different way. 4 years from super payday. 1 year from arbitration. What good does waiting do for the team? Moreover, any team that acquires him now gets the benefit of the discount the Marlins are so predictably botching. He will never be more valuable in a trade than he is now. He will get progressively less valuable every day as he gets closer to arbitration. You address it now. Period.

You know that scene in old school where Will Ferrell leaves James Carville speechless.

Yes. We have no response. That was perfect.

It's sign now for seven years (so super pay day comes at 29 not 26 which is still really good) or package him to the Rangers to respond to the Hamilton deal and take back Olt, Profer, Perez, and 1-2 other significant pitching prospects they have. Hell, make them take Nolasco too (and then just take Harang and Punto off Dodgers hand for basically free so MLB doesn't bitch about payroll to offset Nolasco, etc.). Just get those fucking top end guys from Texas.

Keeping Stanton for 2, probably 3, non contending years just to lose him in free agency or a trade when he is already a $15 million player looking for $250 million the next year is IDIOTIC. Stanton's value to this franchise is to buy him out and kick fucking ass 2015-2019 when all these kids are pre free agency and a few years in, or to trade him and get Yelich, Fernandez, Turner, etc. more friends to hang out with.

There is no just keeping him to keep him. That changed when they traded Reyes, Buerhle, and Bonifacio and decided not to sign major replacements to replace Hanley/Anibal/Johnson. Buy out, or trade. And the best time to do it, is before spring training.
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I hate this organization.
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I'm buying a Rays hat

[tjfla]

Well for 1,the waiting comes in use when teams like Texas and Seattle miss out on a Josh Hamilton. The LAA/Hamilton signing just boosted Stanton's trade value even more. I agree we need to either sign him or trade him but what does it matter if it is December or March? As long as it is done before the season starts who cares?

I could really care less what we do with him. If we sign him-Good,we have a star for the next 7 years or so and we can build around him. If we don't sign him before ST,trade him to either Texas or Seattle and get a shit load in return

These what the "insiders" mentioned as what it would take to get him

Texas-SS Andrus,SP Perez,3B/OF Olt,and 2 or 3 of RP Buckel,RP Font,SP Grimm,2B Garcia, CF Martin
Seattle-SS/2B Franklin,SP Walker,1B/C Zunino and 2 or 3 of RP Capps,SP Paxton,RP Pryor,3B Francisco Martinez,?

One thing that everyone of these guys has in common is that they will be ready by 2014 which is what Loria wants

[Erick]

Well for 1,the waiting comes in use when teams like Texas and Seattle miss out on a Josh Hamilton. The LAA/Hamilton signing just boosted Stanton's trade value even more. I agree we need to either sign him or trade him but what does it matter if it is December or March? As long as it is done before the season starts who cares?

I could really care less what we do with him. If we sign him-Good,we have a star for the next 7 years or so and we can build around him. If we don't sign him before ST,trade him to either Texas or Seattle and get a shit load in return

These what the "insiders" mentioned as what it would take to get him

Texas-SS Andrus,SP Perez,3B/OF Olt,and 2 or 3 of RP Buckel,RP Font,SP Grimm,2B Garcia, CF Martin
Seattle-SS/2B Franklin,SP Walker,1B/C Zunino and 2 or 3 of RP Capps,SP Paxton,RP Pryor,3B Francisco Martinez,?

One thing that everyone of these guys has in common is that they will be ready by 2014 which is what Loria wants

Right but the Josh Hamilton thing already happened so why wait another couple of months now? It is what it is.

Also, while you only said a couple of months in this thread, you've said in other threads that the Marlins would begin extension talks with him in the middle of the '13 season.

Now is a good time to do all of this, one way or the other.

[lou]

I'm willing to bet every other team in baseball would have bought out Stanton already

[Big Z]

Samson said it was supposed to happen as soon as the park was completed and that is what fucking pisses me off. You come on the radio and say that shit to the fans and basically lie to their faces.

It's unfortunate that I love the game so much because it makes it impossible for me not to go to games. I would love to "not give them my money" but I just can't.

[lou]

I would love to "not give them my money" but I just can't.

Secondary ticket market and buy a flask

[Big Z]

Secondary ticket market and buy a flask

Actually, I already do that. I guess I'm not supporting them, I am actually supporting the poor bastard that was supporting them.

[Erick]

I recently wrote this on the fangraphs article about who the Angels should trade, but I'll say it here too.

The Marlins are spending no money/likely won't be in position to spend next year either.

Considering the talent on the roster sucks, adding a guy like Bourjos (a real CF'er would be cool). Nolasco for Bourjos straight up probably doesn't get it done.

Thus, I think we should take on Vernon Wells contract as though we'd be taking on an expiring contract in the NBA.
Difference between Nolasco/Wells contracts in '13 is 10 million.
Wells, I believe, is under contract in '14, but who cares? We'll probably suck then, too.

After '14, he leaves when we're probably ready to compete again.
Most importantly, it gives us leverage to add a talented CF'er in Bourjos. Nolasco leaves, opening up an opportunity for a younger pitcher.

If free agents are reluctant to sign, we need to trade for talent. Taking on Wells contract should be no problem here considering how cheap the rest of the team is going to be.
Especially if they don't extend Stanton, the team becomes even cheap/cost-controlled.
Take on a bad contract from some team and get some better talent without having to give much in return.

[Big Z]

Cubs just signed Anibal per Bob Nightendale.

I didn't see that coming.

[lou]

So what you're saying Erick, is the Marlins should absorb approximately $30 million dollars to get two seasons of Vernon Wells and Peter Bourjos.

Sounds like an AWESOME idea

[Erick]

So what you're saying Erick, is the Marlins should absorb approximately $30 million dollars to get two seasons of Vernon Wells and Peter Bourjos.

Sounds like an AWESOME idea

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic.

[AdamRavs]

Why spend that money on Wells? If we're going to suck see what we have in the young guys. Use the cash in the draft and international talent. Not on a guy on a bad contract.

[Erick]

Why spend that money on Wells? If we're going to suck see what we have in the young guys. Use the cash in the draft and international talent. Not on a guy on a bad contract.

Wells wouldn't see the field.
We add a 3+ win CF'er without giving up any assets.

Nolasco leaving opens up a rotation spot for one of the young guys you probably want to see.

[THE_REAL_MIBS]

Secondary ticket market and buy a flask

Or drive to Tampa.

Or, if you just want to watch baseball, go to Jupiter and watch a Palm Beach Cardinals game.
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Cubs just signed Anibal per Bob Nightendale.

I didn't see that coming.

Heyman is reporting that the deal is not complete. Both sides deny trade is done and his "sources" say the Tigers are still in.

[lou]

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic.

Off the charts sarcastic. Off. the. charts.

There are bad ideas. There are horrible ideas. Then there is acquiring Vernon Wells for 2 years on a non contending team and absorbing $30 million to get Peter Bourjos, where the organization already has, I don't know, Stanton, Yelich, Marisnick, Ozuna, Ruggiano, and lesser guys like Silverio, Solarzano, Keys, Copeland, etc. in the pipeline.

I don't disagree maybe they should absorb bad contracts to get a player, but two years of Vernon Wells with that contract, is not the way to do it. And getting outfielders, is not the way to do it.

You should think more along the lines of absorbing Harang and Punto (combined $8.5 in 2013). Consistent innings and a "good" bench guy to mix with Solano and Kouzmanoff. Vernon Wells, you crazy.
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Why spend that money on Wells? If we're going to suck see what we have in the young guys. Use the cash in the draft and international talent. Not on a guy on a bad contract.

Yes. On things that will be useful 2015+ when they might be good again. Getting Wells does nothing except the franchise gets laughed at even more.