Mark Buehrle Fires Back at Miami Marlins: "I Was Lied To"

[HUGG]

I mean, John Buck promised not to be one of the worst players in the entire league last year. Should Loria and Co be upset that he didn't keep his word?

He wasn't.
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Carlos Lee was though

[lou]

I mean, John Buck promised not to be one of the worst players in the entire league last year. Should Loria and Co be upset that he didn't keep his word?

Loria and Co hate the BABIP statistic, so yes. They can be upset.

Fun fact: Buck's second and third best years as a pro were 2011 and 2012.

[Ramp]

how was Buck not one of the worst players in the bigs last year

Certainly was beyond unlucky with his BABIP but at the end of the day, the stats say what the stats say.

It it qualified, his .192 BA is the worst in baseball. .297 OBP would be top 20 worst. .347 slugging would be top 10 worst. .644 OPS 4th worst (tied with Yunel). That .4 WAR was doo doo as well. Not negative, but still shitty.
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maybe I'm missing something, but please expound, Mr Hugg and Senor Lou

[HUGG]

1.2 WAR according to Fangraphs. About 60 players with 350 PA behind him.

[Erick]

Based on the complete outrage everywhere, I think it's very clear Marlins fans are paying attention to what is going on Erick. Yea, 2012 didn't go so well and people didn't show up. Pretty deflating to see the team fall apart and trade away a few guys (even if necessary) first year in a new stadium no? That does not mean you give up establishing your brand and loyalty to the community that built you a stadium. Winning is part of the equation, it's not the whole burrito like you think it is. These guys were given an amazing second opportunity with a clean slate to start establishing baseball in the city, and they threw it all away and banked in the process. I mean, Loria is going to go down as the worst sports figure in the history of South Florida, you realize this right? People WANT to like the Marlins. There wouldn't be this insane reaction to this trade if they didn't. This ownership makes it nearly impossible, and that is a massive problem. They needed to continue building the team, even if it cost them the money they saved by moving Hanley, Bell, Anibal, Infante, and Choate, and see if they could be in a position to add at the deadline. They needed to establish a new track record and way of doing business. Also, attendance went up in 2004 and 2005 so if you want to bring up August 2003, the residual effects of establishing confidence in your team are felt for seasons. The Marlins needed to change their perception outwardly, and then build a winner. And then maybe, the team would turn into a legitimate mid market team. No chance of that now. Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice shame on me. How many times have you heard a line like that before?

I am literally amazed at any apologist perspective for these guys and how this trade was the "right" or "understandable" decision because they weren't going to win a world series. What they should have done is realized this was not going to be an overnight fix after 7 seasons of abuse and still disapproval from 1998 (even if it wasn't them). This is the worst new stadium opening in the history of sports. The stadium was supposed to change everything, it changed nothing but Loria's wallet. No one is going to put more money into it if they have a choice. You have battered wife syndrome. I am sure this all makes sense in your head, but back in reality, we know you didn't fall down those stairs.

I really hope they are over .500 in August. No one is going to be there. No one is going to support these clowns until they do multiple things to earn people's trust. I don't know how they can do it, but winning is not going to be enough. I do know that.

-Perhaps winning isn't everything but wouldn't you agree it's, by far, the most important thing? You've even admitted later in that first paragraph that the goal is to build a winner.

-I haven't really called their decisions "right" or "understandable," really. I'm just defending them in this case, which you, yourself, have already done.
For what it's worth, you're looking at this from a fans' perspective. If you look at it from Jeffrey Loria's perspective, it might be more understandable and you probably wouldn't be calling him a "clown." Perhaps evil genius is more fitting. Either way, I'm not sure many of the fans criticizing would've handled the situation differently, to be honest.

-If they're over .500 in August and no one is there, it literally proves nothing. It proves that South Florida fans are being South Florida fans. Have you forgotten that the Marlins have been over .500 many times in August only to draw dismal crowds? It is what it is. That's the way this city is. A couple of weeks ago, the Dolphins, not owned by Jeffrey Loria, were 4-4 and in playoff contention. That Sunday ended up being a home game against the Tennessee Titans filled with a whole lot of empty orange seats. UM, not many people really care to go anymore now that they suck.
Unless you're the Heat right now, you're probably not drawing consistent crowds here. You're using hyperbole to make the situation worse than it is.

If the fanbase decides to literally boycott games or something, that would be different. As it stands, it seems like a lot of the same to me.
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No that won't work, they are either lying or not. There is no middle ground.

And the players are clearly not lying because Loria won't sue for libel.
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how was Buck not one of the worst players in the bigs last year

Certainly was beyond unlucky with his BABIP but at the end of the day, the stats say what the stats say.

It it qualified, his .192 BA is the worst in baseball. .297 OBP would be top 20 worst. .347 slugging would be top 10 worst. .644 OPS 4th worst (tied with Yunel). That .4 WAR was doo doo as well. Not negative, but still shitty.
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maybe I'm missing something, but please expound, Mr Hugg and Senor Lou

I think lou is basically just saying that John Buck was terrible last year, but he's been terrible his whole entire career (aside from that one year aberration in Toronto) so it was to be expected.

[Anonymous]

There's no proof he said that to them.
If you're making a business deal and you really want something out of it, wouldn't you ask for it to be written in the contract?

It seems like we did a nice job attracting the dumbest players in baseball last offseason.

So you think both Buehrle and Reyes would say that for no reason? That's pretty stupid. He said it to them, and he lied. It's pretty simple.

[Erick]

So you think both Buehrle and Reyes would say that for no reason? That's pretty stupid. He said it to them, and he lied. It's pretty simple.

Maybe, maybe not.

We'll never know. Or maybe we will; it all depends on whether or not Loria sues the players for libel.

Either way, it's rather irrelevant.

[MarlinKidd101]

They lied.

[Miamarlin21]

No lie, no lie, no lie-ee-i-ee-i

[oakelmpine]

That's the way this city is. A couple of weeks ago, the Dolphins, not owned by Jeffrey Loria, were 4-4 and in playoff contention. That Sunday ended up being a home game against the Tennessee Titans filled with a whole lot of empty orange seats. UM, not many people really care to go anymore now that they suck.

Comparing the Marlins and Dolphins is really a bad example. The Dolphins have lost their fans due to a clueless owner, an incompetant GM, and a front office made up of a lot of ex-baseball people that Mike Dee brought in that don't understand South Fla. The Dolphins in their first 42 years managed to have 3 losing seasons in a row only once and that was 1966-67-68-69, at their infancy as they were an expansion team in 1966. As late as 2009 they had 61,000 season ticket holders. They now have around 37,000. Its not been for trying, the Dolphins try to win, but they are just totally incompetant.

The Marlins OTOH seem sinister & evil and just when people thought they had turned the corner, they trade away the whole team and basically have said no free agents this year of any consequence, so screw you fans and no ticket prices remain high, no cutting them. It's pure evil genius on Loria's part. It has the smell of this has been planned all along, and that no matter what had happened last year, this same purging of the payroll was going to happen.

Loria really doesn't care about the South Florida community, fan base or anything more than lining his pockets with as much as he can. And all with the approval of Selig. It's disgusting.

[Erick]

Comparing the Marlins and Dolphins is really a bad example. The Dolphins have lost their fans due to a clueless owner, an incompetant GM, and a front office made up of a lot of ex-baseball people that Mike Dee brought in that don't understand South Fla. The Dolphins in their first 42 years managed to have 3 losing seasons in a row only once and that was 1966-67-68-69, at their infancy as they were an expansion team in 1966. As late as 2009 they had 61,000 season ticket holders. They now have around 37,000. Its not been for trying, the Dolphins try to win, but they are just totally incompetant.

The Marlins OTOH seem sinister & evil and just when people thought they had turned the corner, they trade away the whole team and basically have said no free agents this year of any consequence, so screw you fans and no ticket prices remain high, no cutting them. It's pure evil genius on Loria's part. It has the smell of this has been planned all along, and that no matter what had happened last year, this same purging of the payroll was going to happen.

Loria really doesn't care about the South Florida community, fan base or anything more than lining his pockets with as much as he can. And all with the approval of Selig. It's disgusting.

So what you're saying is that the Dolphins don't draw as many fans because they lose. Thanks for my proving my point about the winning and losing.

Trying, as the Dolphins do, does not matter. Winning/losing does.

The Marlins tried in 2012. Did it matter? Do you really think the fanbase would've been excited for 2013 had they kept the '12 core of players?

[Bobbob1313]

And all with the approval of Selig. It's disgusting.

I asked mibs the other day and she ignored it and you will probably ignore this too, but...

What would you have had Selig do?

[Beef]

oakelmpine, you understand why it's weird that you called Erick bitter earlier, right? Do you get it? Please let me know. Thanks.

[CrimsonCane]

So you think both Buehrle and Reyes would say that for no reason? That's pretty stupid. He said it to them, and he lied. It's pretty simple.

They lied.

Or, they said something similar to what I mentioned earlier in the thread.

[oakelmpine]

So what you're saying is that the Dolphins don't draw as many fans because they lose. Thanks for my proving my point about the winning and losing.

Trying, as the Dolphins do, does not matter. Winning/losing does.

The Marlins tried in 2012. Did it matter? Do you really think the fanbase would've been excited for 2013 had they kept the '12 core of players?

That;s too simple. Jeff Ireland is another reason. I know of people that used to have tickets around my seats (or former tickets I too have dropped the Dolphins) that refuse to go back until Ireland is gone.

Also a number of Huuricane fans were insulted by the Tim Tebow day fiasco last year. What team invites fans to root for the other team ? The clueless Dolphins, thats who. Those insulted fans also won't go to another Dolphin game ever, many of them have been permanently disenfranchised by the Dolphins and even a Super Bowl won't bring them back.

The result is the same, empty seats but the reasons for them are vastly different, and the Dolphins can actually win many of them back. the Marlins because of their owner's evilness has turned them off from baseball forever - at least Marlins baseball that is.

If you want to see good baseball albeit on a lower level there is always the Universities of Miami, FIU & FAU to go watch, and it's fairly cheap (Miami season tickets are only $119 for 32 home games)