Giancarlo: "I Do Not Like This at All”

[HUGG]

Omar just kinda did that thing that Metes asked Daft about.

[Party]

Re: Mainge

Managing people that are not baseball players. You have to know the strengths, weaknesses, and biases of your staff and how to manage them and get as much productivity as possible out of them. You have to convince them you have a plan, and they should work towards making that plan a reality. Then you have to learn how to deal with and manage people above you. Sometimes your boss is someone who has made hundreds of millions of dollars in another industry and is convinced he should at least make some decisions. Now you have to sell him on the plan.

Then you have negotiating with players, agents, other general managers, etc. etc. etc.

These types of positions require tremendo people skills aside from knowing who to read and gauge talent, stats, and payroll commitments.

[Mainge]

I think most people knew about all of that already. I'll stand by my original statement.

[Party]

And even despite knowing that you still think several people on this board would make a better GM than most in the league right now?

[Mainge]

Sure. Anyone that's ever been in a position of management knows the challenges of what you described. Even I did (on a much smaller scale) when I used to manage my summer teams.

But for the sake of steering the discussion back on topic, I'll modify my statement exclusively to talent evaluation and roster construction, which my original point was about.

Meet me in the Give A Fuck thread.

[Namaste]

There are posters here who have the baseball knowledge to be a GM.

If The Franchise taught us anything, it taught us that you don't need a lot of baseball knowledge to be a baseball GM.

But there's way more to being a GM than possessing baseball knowledge.

[Mainge]

Hey, Party just said that. Neat.

[Erick]

I've actually thought and said the same things Mainge is saying, too. The non-baseball related things all seem to deal with some form of communication and there are many people who are good at that.

I feel like it doesn't take a genius to do what they do.

[Namaste]

Sometimes I read a post and reply to it before I read the subsequent posts.

There should be a special place in Internet hell for me.
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People who post a lot on sports forums do seem like the type of people who would make exceptional face to face communicators.

Don't forget to tip your waitresses, boys.

My 2nd set starts at 12:30

:takesabow

[Mainge]

I bet anytime Daft is asked a question in person, he just grunts and pepper sprays them.

I wonder how all of the lawyers in this place are able to work without throwing up all over the place when interacting on the job.

[Flum]

I'd like to know where all these good managers of people are, because I've had quite a few jobs, worked in various industries and have had very few superiors that I would consider to fit that description.

[emkayseven]

Just look at all the trades the Marlins have done since 2003:

Adrian Gonzalez, Ryan Snare and Will Smith for Urbina- Gonzo is awesome but without Urbina, maybe they didn't make the playoffs.

Denny Bautista for Jeff Conine- Bautista hasn't been anything amazing. Niner did well his second go-round.

Derrek Lee for Hee-Seop Choi and Mike Nannini- Lee did well for Chicago and Choi was horrible and Nannai never made it to the bigs with the Marlins.

Mark Redman for Bill Murphy and Michael Neu- Redman pitched until 2008. Murphy made the big leagues with Arizona and Neu never did anything for the Marlins.

Abraham Nunez for Rudy Seanez- Seanez pitched well during his second stint with the Marlins. Nunez sucked.

Blaine Neal for Ben Howard- Howard was OK, not a big trade in the long run.

Wilson Valez for Billy Koch- Valdez is still playing and Koch did OK for us.

Brad Penny, Hee-Seop Choi and Bill Murphy for Juan Encarnacion, Guilero Mota and Paul LoDuca- Toss up here. Mota did well for us and so did LoDuca. Encarnacion sucked.

Travis Chick for Ismael Valdez- Valdez wasn't that good for the two seasons he was with us. Chick bounced around but was nothing.

Mike Flannery and Yorman Bazardo for Ron Villone- Flannery never made it to the Majors and Bazardo has made the big leagues but hasn't been a big factor. Villone did pretty bad during his stint with the Marlins.

Josh Beckett, Mike Lowell, Guillero Mota for Hanley Ramirez, Jesus Delgado, Anibal Sanchez, Harvey Garcia- Trade worked out well for both teams until Hanley stopped hitting.

Luis Castillo for Scott Tyler and Travis Bowyer.- Luis was still good or decent. Bowyer never threw a pitch for the Marlins and Tyler got one day in the big leagues.

Carlos Delgado for Mike Jacobs, Yusmeiro Petit and Grand Psomas.- Delgado contributed for New York. Jacobs was good and fun to watch. Petit was ehhh and Pso never made it out of Double-A.

Juan Piere for Ricky Nolasco, Sergio Mitre and Renyel Pinto- Ricky is the leader in Marlins history in wins, Sergio had an OK 2007 and Pinto was good for a year.

Yusmeiro Petit for Jorge Julio- Petit sucks and Julio sucked even worse.

Jorge Julio for Byung-Hyun Kim- Yay?

Jason Vargas and Adam Bostick for Henry Owens and Matt Lindstom- Lindstrom wasn't bad but gave a lot of headaches. Owens was great before being shut down in May. He then was suspended and never heard from again. Vargas is a serviceable number four starter now. Bostick never made it to the big leagues.

Lincoln Holdzkom and Zach McCormack for Todd Wellemeyer- Wellemeyer was a bad reliever for the Marlins before being let go. Holdzkom nor McCormack made the big leagues.


Chris Resop for Kevin Gregg- Gregg was good as our closer for a couple of years. Resop did well for the Pirates last year.

Randy Messenger for Armando Benitez- Messenger is now in Japan and Benitez was bad.

Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis for Andrew Miller, Cameron Maybin, Mike Rabelo, Burke Badenhop and Dallas Trahern- The Hopper was sadly the best from that group.

Josh Willingham and Scott Olsen for Emilio Bonifacio, Jake Smolinksi and PJ Dean- Boni was a great super utility man. Smolinski had a good 2012 and Dean never threw a pitch for the Marlins.

Jason Stokes for John Baker- Baker did well during his tenure with the Marlins before getting an arm injury.

Hector Correra for Ronny Paulino- Paulino did OK splitting time with John Baker

Robert Andino for Hayden Penn- Andino has been a decent middle infielder. Penn sucked.

Logan Kensing for Kyle Gunderson- Kensing is a minor leaguer now and Gunderson was released in 2011.

Mike Jacobs for Juan Carlos Oviedo- Oviedo pitched well for us and Jacobs sucked for KC and was last with Arizona.

Jorge Cantu for Evan Reed and Omar Poveda- Poveda made one start for the Marlins and Evan Reed has made one appearance so far.

Dan Uggla for Omar Infante and Mike Dunn- Dunn was great his first year for us and Infante was awesome. Dan got paid and was an "All-Star" in 2012.

Jeremy Hermida for Hunter Jones and Jose Alvarez- Jones made three appearances for the Marlins. Alvarez is now with Detroit and has yet to make the big leagues.

Andrew Miller for Dustin Richardson- Miller has somewhat found a home in the Red Sox bullpen. Richardson sucked.

Cameron Maybin for Ryan Webb and Edward Mujica- Maybin had one good year but sucked in 2012. Webb and Mujica were pretty good for the Marlins.

John Baker for Wade LeBlanc- LeBlanc did well out of the bullpen during his half-season with the Marlins in 2012.

Burke Badenhop for Jake Jeffries- Jeffries spend 2012 in Double-A Jacksonville and probably won't make the big leagues.

Chris Volstad for Carlos Zambrano- Big Z was good in May and June but fell off after that. Volstad, well, yeah.

(some might have been out of chronological order and I might have forgotten one or two trades.)

I like how in one trade Petit was ehhh and then a few trades later he sucks

[HUGG]

"Koch did OK with us."

Man did we hate that guy. Didn't he walk like 25 guys in 25 innings or something?
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It was 20 in 25.2. He somehow managed to only put up a 3.52 era while putting up a 1.60 whip. I guess he did "OK" my memory was skewed by the general disdain everyone had for him.

[Party]

Billy Koch did not brighten our days.

[oakelmpine]

Not to pick on you specifically, but I can't properly express how much I hate this logical train. You're not just a fan - you're the customer. You're the boss. Don't resign yourself to thinking you're a bumpkin who isn't paid to do this for a living so you don't know.

You're contributing money to their salaries, for goodness' sake.

I don't have time to know better than just an average guy who watches 2-3 games a week and tries to follow the rest on the radio when I can't see them or there live at the games.

I have "honey-do" lists, work 50 to 60 hours a week at my business, grand children that have soccer games, wrestling matches, baseball games, music recitals and I just don't have time to follow the game as closely as some here. They all live out of town and I do a lot of traveling around the state to see them sometimes.