Nightengale: Many Burned by Marlins Fire Sale

[Omar]

I don't know how useful the Scott Boras thing is. He represents elite players with elite contract demands, and we've made only two major forays into free agency in those 16 years.

Do we have a list of Scott Boras free agents that we've "missed out on" in 2005 and last winter?

The first one that comes to mind is Pudge, which is a negotiation that looks worse in retrospect (including the 7 mil that was deferred from 03 in the 3/24 proposal).

Your general point is fair, but as a franchie so we want the agent who represents a significant chunk of the elite talent not even looking our way?

[oakelmpine]

The first one that comes to mind is Pudge, which is a negotiation that looks worse in retrospect (including the 7 mil that was deferred from 03 in the 3/24 proposal).

Your general point is fair, but as a franchie so we want the agent who represents a significant chunk of the elite talent not even looking our way?

Well its a moot point now. Until Loria is gone, it won't happen. But yes we are at a disadvantage because of it.

[Mainge]

Well, is he not looking our way, or are we not looking his way?

His FA deals of 2005:

Following the 2004 season, Boras negotiated a five-year, $55 million contract for J.D. Drew to play for the Los Angeles Dodgers.

In mid-December 2004, Boras brokered a five-year, $64 million contract for Adrián Beltré with the Seattle Mariners

Later that month, Boras negotiated a four-year, $40 million contract for Boston Red Sox catcher and team captain Jason Varitek to return to the team

In January 2005, Boras negotiated his third contract in excess of $100 million, this time sending Carlos Beltrán to the New York Mets for $119 million guaranteed over seven years

A few days later, Boras negotiates a four-year $36 million contract for Derek Lowe with the Los Angeles Dodgers

The next month, Boras negotiated another contract with a potential value in excess of $100 million, when Magglio Ordóñez agreed to a five-year, $75 million contract with two vesting option years that push the potential value to $105 million over seven years. The contract was complicated by language allowing the Tigers to void the contract after the 2005 season if Ordóñez's previous knee problems returned

In December 2005, Boras negotiated a four-year, $52 million contract for Boston Red Sox center fielder Johnny Damon to join the rival New York Yankees. The Red Sox had failed to improve their $40 million offer, thinking Boras was bluffing

Also in December 2005, Boras landed a five-year, $60 million contract for Kevin Millwood with the Texas Rangers

Did any one of those guys fill a bigger need than Delgado did? I don't remember that being the case.

in 2012, Boras' only major signing was Fielder but we weren't interested.
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Well its a moot point now. Until Loria is gone, it won't happen. But yes we are at a disadvantage because of it.

I don't even know if we're at a disadvantage. The Yankees are starting to regret all of these mega deals, and it's only going to get worse. The Sox were also burned pretty badly with Crawford, Lackey, AGonz, and were fortunate LAD bailed them out

It's really hard to get equal return on the money spent for these crazy megadeals. As a Marlins fan, I'm more concerned about the mid-level free agents. The Buerhle's, etc.

[Omar]

They didn't fill a bigger need than Delgado. Scott Boras also has more than those clients and we have more than one offseason.

The stronger point, however, is the absurdly consistent track record of trading players before the entire term is up. Once Nolasco is moved, they will be 11/11. That's an astounding number.

[Mainge]

They didn't fill a bigger need than Delgado. Scott Boras also has more than those clients and we have more than one offseason.

Sure. I was just arguing against the point of Boras not having anyone sign here as meaning something. We really haven't had an opportunity to be turned down by him. Maybe that will come to fruition in the future, but we can't draw anything conclusive from it yet.

The stronger point, however, is the absurdly consistent track record of trading players before the entire term is up. Once Nolasco is moved, they will be 11/11. That's an astounding number.

FWIW (probably nothing), Samson says Nolasco is staying. Lebatard is speculating that the Marlins might actually do that because he and Stanton are close.

[Omar]

It'd be so interesting if, of all the people that were signed long term, Nolasco was the one that got to stay. It's not for lack of trying, considering how often they've been rumored to be shopping him.

Digging deeper into the stat:

Of the 11 players this Marlins ownership group has signed to contracts of three or more years, five were traded after the first season (Delgado, Paul Lo Duca, Reyes, Buehrle, Heath Bell). Three others — Buck, Mike Lowell, Luis Castillo — were traded after two seasons

[emkayseven]

These two figures were startling to me:

1) Allegedly, a Scott Boras client hasn't signed a multi-year deal here since 1996 (Alex Fernandez)
2) Ricky Nolasco is the only player Loria and the circus have signed to a three year or longer contract (out of 11) who hasn't been traded before the contract was due. All four major free agent signings (Delgado, Bell, Buehrle, Reyes) were traded immediately after their first year.

I'm sure you're right, though.

Point 1 isn't true either. Charles Johnson signed here in 2001 and like it or not he was a marquee free agent that offseason. Just got overshadowed by ARod.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas...ns_johnson_ap/

[Omar]

Good idea by me to add that 'allegedly', then.

2001 offseason - before this current ownership group, no?

EDIT: Yup, deal was done by Dombrowski:

Boras noted that Johnson took a 25 percent pay cut to sign with the Marlins, saying that he had been negotiating with two other teams when Florida general manager Dave Dombrowski approached him during the winter meetings last week to inquire about the Gold Glove catcher.

[lou]

Can't we all just agree Loria fucking sucks and no need to cite examples of his tomfoolery

If they Jayson Werth someone, they will come.

[CrimsonCane]

These two figures were startling to me:

1) Allegedly, a Scott Boras client hasn't signed a multi-year deal here since 1996 (Alex Fernandez)

That's a total non-issue. Has there been a Scott Boras negotiated contract that a team was happy to have signed by the end of it? It seems that all of his clients get grossly overpaid.