2023-2024 Offseason Thread

[Namaste]

When is Luzardo's MRI scheduled

[lou]

I question the chances they actually do it, though. We've been talking about them doing this for years and it's never happened.

They really have the personnel for this though now both with numbers + innings inventory + injury threats to not overwork anyone.

The not over thinking it analysis is Luzardo, Garrett, Weathers, Cabrera, and Eury in that order have the most innings capacity in the organization, so there is the 5 "SP." Of course slot them differently as Eury should be 2, Garret 3, Cabrera 4, and Weathers 5, etc. to break up the right handers. Set it up to take the most innings.

Let Rogers, Puk, Soriano, and Max be either dedicated bulk relievers and tie them to a SP (even if that's just 1-2 of them), or just keep it all fluid and map out who is throwing when every 3-5 days based on need. Aim for 110-130 innings our of Rogers and Puk over 30-40 appearances, get Soriano 90-100 innings over 40 appearances, and Max can get 50-70 over 25 appearances come July.

Given that Rogers has been a dedicated SP his career, I'd tie him to Cabrera to keep him on a normal every 5 day mentality. That should be at minimum, and then it's a question if you do that with Puk and tie him to Eury to make frankly a scary AF two headed # 2 SP monster there. I like the idea of having a combo Cabrera/Rogers day before Weathers (i.e. the "worst" guy) too, so the bullpen is completely fresh to help him. I'd like to think a Cabrera/Rogers combo pitches 8+ innings every time which I think is reasonable.

Luzardo
Eury+Puk
Garrett
Cabrera+Rogers
Weathers and friends

Figure out where Max fits in in July. That's a July problem.

But absent taking a veteran arm, I'd do the above once healthy and have Soriano be a roaming true longman who would presumably pitch the Garrett/Weathers days primarily.

[lou]

Cabrera listed # 1 on this FG writer's SP breakout list - https://blogs.fangraphs.com/szymbors...usts-pitchers/

No other Marlins.

Get that shoulder healthy.

[fish16]

cabrera isnt going to need much if any throwing progression according to Skip. So he should be ready opening day if not very shortly after. Chargois is probably going to be out a while. Skip said he is going to see a specialist for his neck/spine after he didnt look right. Said his velocity was way down.

[lou]

cabrera isnt going to need much if any throwing progression according to Skip. So he should be ready opening day if not very shortly after. Chargois is probably going to be out a while. Skip said he is going to see a specialist for his neck/spine after he didnt look right. Said his velocity was way down.

That fixes the whole "optionable" arm issue with Chargois even if it sucks.

So what they can do is.... IL Cabrera until game 7 so they can open with Luzardo, Eury, Weathers, Rogers, Puk, Luzardo, and Cabrera game 7. Just give him "1" time off but its not really "1" time practically and builds in a nice initial rest period for Eury to open as they'll still be watching innings. So you can carry an extra reliever for 6 days and start eating those garbage time innings against Pitt/LAA (bad teams) early. That is a fair IL stint the union will not object given his history and targeting him for the opening homestand still. Just some gamesmanship here.

Opening day:

Luzardo, Eury, Weathers, Rogers, Puk
Scott, Nardi, Bender, Soriano, Sixto
Cronin, Munoz, Hoeing

Game 7 Cronin/Munoz go down for Cabrera
TBD when Garret is ready, the other goes down
pitcher 13 is Hoeing and when he is maxed out on availability, next man up of McCaughan, Faucher, Maldonado, Simpson in an optionable rotation


So Chargois actually greatly increased flexibility here in a world Sixto is actually making the team and can't be optioned. And more readily opens up space for Lorenzen if they do a smart thing......


(They could also keep Weathers down as he has an option until he is called up for first first start and just carry an extra reliever for 2-4 days or hell, even a bat and maybe Bride/Dane is just with the team for a few days)


But ultimately, none of that is a big deal. Just need Cabrera to be healthy and if that's early April as a floor, no season issues which is great.

[fish16]

That fixes the whole "optionable" arm issue with Chargois even if it sucks.

So what they can do is.... IL Cabrera until game 7 so they can open with Luzardo, Eury, Weathers, Rogers, Puk, Luzardo, and Cabrera game 7. Just give him "1" time off but its not really "1" time practically and builds in a nice initial rest period for Eury to open as they'll still be watching innings. So you can carry an extra reliever for 6 days and start eating those garbage time innings against Pitt/LAA (bad teams) early. That is a fair IL stint the union will not object given his history and targeting him for the opening homestand still. Just some gamesmanship here.

Opening day:

Luzardo, Eury, Weathers, Rogers, Puk
Scott, Nardi, Bender, Soriano, Sixto
Cronin, Munoz, Hoeing

Game 7 Cronin/Munoz go down for Cabrera
TBD when Garret is ready, the other goes down
pitcher 13 is Hoeing and when he is maxed out on availability, next man up of McCaughan, Faucher, Maldonado, Simpson in an optionable rotation


So Chargois actually greatly increased flexibility here in a world Sixto is actually making the team and can't be optioned. And more readily opens up space for Lorenzen if they do a smart thing......


(They could also keep Weathers down as he has an option until he is called up for first first start and just carry an extra reliever for 2-4 days or hell, even a bat and maybe Bride/Dane is just with the team for a few days)


But ultimately, none of that is a big deal. Just need Cabrera to be healthy and if that's early April as a floor, no season issues which is great.

Munoz is a truly terrible pitcher and has already been optioned. Same with Mccaughan. Cronin also stinks.

Bullpen should likely be Scott, Nardi, Bender, Soriano, Sixto, Maldonado, Weathers if cabrera is ready opening day, Hoeing, and then maybe Gutierrez? They are going to lose a game or 2 because they are playing service time games with Meyer instead of using him as a weapon out of the bullpen and replacing him with a guy who is a fringe big leaguer. .

[lou]

Munoz is a truly terrible pitcher and has already been optioned. Same with Mccaughan. Cronin also stinks.

Bullpen should likely be Scott, Nardi, Bender, Soriano, Sixto, Maldonado, Weathers if cabrera is ready opening day, Hoeing, and then maybe Gutierrez? They are going to lose a game or 2 because they are playing service time games with Meyer instead of using him as a weapon out of the bullpen and replacing him with a guy who is a fringe big leaguer. .

Sure, throw Maldonado in that mix. These are garbage time relievers for 2024 just to have for a few days.


As for Max, do something like this:

-Have Maldonado up for 4 games to open - garbage time RP only
-Call up Max game 5, give him 2+ innings tied to Weathers as SP5
-Immediately send him down, and call Cabrera up to start game 6 or 7. Builds in some rest for Cabrera.


We get likely 1-2 Maldonado pure garbage time innings, and 2+ Max innings, and Cabrera is starting game 6 or 7. It's those kind of hidden innings they will need every week to make this work having a warm body for whatever innings and strategically using Max here in this one instance.

Max is up "1" service day so we are pushing that eventual call up from July 1 to July 2nd on a big picture level. He can be "stretched out" in the minors which is the excuse for sending him down. And I mean, I agree he should go down with that kind of throwing program with way less pressure. And then maybe you do 2 more Max spot appearances in May and June on say a double header (so no one has to be sent down), and he grabs another service day so now we're at July 4th call up, but got maybe 7-8 innings out of Max for 3 days of time.

They should literally be this gangster..... or, just sign Lorenzen/Clevinger because they need innings and keep Max in AAA until July and then call him up permanently for the next 5.5 seasons as soon as the clock rolls over.


I know you hate this, but it's a thing and greatly influrnced by Bruce's cheapness.

[fish16]

stretching max out as a starter right away when we have a ton of other pitchers with innings limits and we are going to need some more innings in the later part of the year sounds like a bad idea. Not saying he needs to be a 1 inning reliever, but he has maybe 100 innings this year, maybe 120? Wasting them as a starter in AAA when you blatantly need bullpen help right now at the big league level and you are for sure going to need more innings in august and september is just screaming that you dont care about winning this year. He can plug 2 huge holes for this team, 1 early as a reliever and 1 later in the year as a starter. And they are going to manipulate his service time and have him accumulate AAA starter innings so that he helps neither. just dumb. dumb and cheap.

[Nick]

The correct answer is sign an innings eating veteran to allow yourself to ease Max into this season at AAA. It's probably what should be done given he missed an entire year and barely had a cup of coffee in the majors when he was up before, do everything you can to make sure the next time he leaves the minors it's the last time.

But like everyone knows the organization is cheap and saving money supersedes all.

[fish16]

why the fuck do they continue to throw eury out there in spring with his finger issue still bothering him? LAst outing they told him not to throw 2 of his pitches. Today he comes out early yet again with the finger issue. what the fuck is going on?

[Nick]

This season could be ugly.

[lou]

why the fuck do they continue to throw eury out there in spring with his finger issue still bothering him? LAst outing they told him not to throw 2 of his pitches. Today he comes out early yet again with the finger issue. what the fuck is going on?

Heavy Josh Beckett flashbacks here

Didn't he put his finger in pickle juice? Give him a call.

[lou]

The correct answer is sign an innings eating veteran to allow yourself to ease Max into this season at AAA. It's probably what should be done given he missed an entire year and barely had a cup of coffee in the majors when he was up before, do everything you can to make sure the next time he leaves the minors it's the last time.

But like everyone knows the organization is cheap and saving money supersedes all.

1,000%

And even more so if there is going to be a 1-3 week delay for Cabrera, 3-4 week delay for Garrett, and maybe Eury needs some time off in April if something needs to heal.

They can survive with Luzardo, Puk, Weathers, Rogers, and Lorenzen for sure if those 3 above are missing 8-10 combined early starts. Maybe it's nothing for them, but this always comes back to they need more innings and this is why.

You know how happy Lorenzen + JD Davis would make me? I'll move the offseason grade from an F to a C-

[fish16]

sixto is throwing 97.4 today. wow. he needs to make the team. what a story that would be.

[fish16]

woah, fastball topped out at 98.8 for sixto today...