Marlins Trade Everyone to Toronto, Receive lifetime supply of Maple Syrup

[Bobbob1313]

Seriously, I don't get how Samson can be so tone deaf. He absolutely kills everything about the organization's decision makers in that interview, talks constantly about how the organization needed change, and they kept Beinfest.

It's just weird.

[lou]

I really don't think they get it. They really think they are going to pack the place if they just win. It's not gonna happen. No one is going to trust them not to blow it up a fourth time in that unlikely scenario.

Under million tickets sold

[CrimsonCane]

Q: But it's personal than that. It's not just the distrust of the franchise or winning, it's a distrust of the owner, of you, of Larry Beinfest. It's a very personal distrust.
"I think that distrust again is based on the fact we're not performing. I get that. I think this isn't about me, Jeffrey or Larry. It's really about baseball and about winning. We have to try, whatever we have to do. We're custodians of this franchise, whatever period of time we're all working here. Everybody in the company is custodians of the Miami Marlins franchise because that franchise will go on long after all of the current employees are gone. There will be another group of employees, owners and presidents, just like before us. So, it was up to us during our time to get a ballpark built and now it's up to us to try to do better for everybody."

He doesn't understand that it's not just about winning or losing. It's also about why you're losing. If the team spends money and the plan doesn't materialize, then you give ownership the benefit of the doubt and hope that they can bring in more competent front office people. Ex. Cubs, Orioles, etc. When you give the appearance that you're doing things on the cheap, people feel like ownership is setting the team up for failure. That's the very justified perception right now by the fan base. Far too often, the philosophy of the team seems to be, "We have a contender IF about 12 different things all occur simultaneously." And, when that parlay inevitably fails, they don't try to spend a little more to fix the problem; they just reboot the whole damn thing and hope that next time around the stars will align.

It's like if you're a little kid and you have a parent who buys a car that eventually breaks down. Instead of spending $500 to fix it, your parent spends $5 on lottery tickets and pockets the rest. It gets worse. The parent actually thinks that this crap should count as "trying" and that the only reason their family is upset is because they haven't won the lottery yet.

Q: But people want you to sell the team and Jeffrey Loria out of town.
"Okay, I don't know what to tell you. Jeffrey Loria stepped in and I will defend him because he stepped in when no one else wanted to buy this team. He got a ballpark done when no one else could and that ballpark goes to the benefit of everybody in our community."

I'm sure it would've been so difficult to find someone who was willing to purchase a MLB franchise. Because rich people really stay away from big, fun toys that also print money. Also, the difficulty in finalizing a ballpark deal came predominantly because local politicians had so much distrust in this ownership group. Micky Arison had no problem getting money for a new arena on prime real estate for a less valuable franchise when his old publicly financed arena was only 11 years old. It's unfathomable that a more competent ownership group with deeper pockets would've had less success at executing a long-term plan than these clowns.

[KnuckleBalls]

In addition, they also don't seem to understand the PR ramifications of these moves. They don't get that at some point, people will stop caring.

[Bobbob1313]

Micky Arison had no problem getting money for a new arena on prime real estate for a less valuable franchise when his old publicly financed arena was only 11 years old. It's unfathomable that a more competent ownership group with deeper pockets would've had less success at executing a long-term plan than these clowns.

In fairness, two other ownership groups had failed, and an NBA arena should cost less than a retractable-roof baseball stadium.

[CrimsonCane]

In fairness, two other ownership groups had failed, and an NBA arena should cost less than a retractable-roof baseball stadium.

Define failure. The other two ownership groups made efforts to build a new ballpark in about the same way that Loria and Co. attempted to build a competitive franchise last year.

They tried for about 3 months. Didn't like what they saw and then said, "Why keep trying when I can make more money doing a lot less work." Henry took himself to Boston and Loria sent the team to Toronto.

[Bobbob1313]

Define failure. The other two ownership groups made efforts to build a new ballpark in about the same way that Loria and Co. attempted to build a competitive franchise last year.

They tried for about 3 months. Didn't like what they saw and then said, "Why keep trying when I can make more money doing a lot less work." Henry took himself to Boston and Loria sent the team to Toronto.

That's fair.

I just don't think you can say another ownership group would have had an easier time getting a stadium deal, unless they were willing to simply pony up more cash. Which is possible, but I don't think that points to incompetence on ownership's part. That's a failing on baseball's part for putting an ownership group in place that cannot put cash up front for investment.

The Marlins got essentially the same percentage of their building paid for that Arison did. If the Marlins could have built a stadium for $210 million, it probably would have gotten done fairly quickly as well. I don't think the Arison comparison works.

[CrimsonCane]

That's fair.

I just don't think you can say another ownership group would have had an easier time getting a stadium deal, unless they were willing to simply pony up more cash. Which is possible, but I don't think that points to incompetence on ownership's part. That's a failing on baseball's part for putting an ownership group in place that cannot put cash up front for investment.

The Marlins got essentially the same percentage of their building paid for that Arison did. If the Marlins could have built a stadium for $210 million, it probably would have gotten done fairly quickly as well. I don't think the Arison comparison works.

More money is part of it. But, if you saw the hearings at City and County Hall or read what occurred in the discussions leading up to those hearings, there was always concern by the City/County Managers and Commissioners due to the absurdly low payroll in 2006, the prior threats to relocate, etc. There was a definitely reluctance due to who was on the other side of the negotiating table.

Did they ultimately pull it off? Sure. Should they get some credit for their efforts? Absolutely. But, it's not like they achieved the impossible (which is what Samson is making it sound like). It's really not that difficult to get local politicians to overspend on really big projects. (I mean just look at what we have going on right now in Miami. There's the Port Tunnel project, Science Museum, and Art Musuem (Collective Price Tag: > $2 billion) all under construction right at this moment.) I'm not questioning the benefits of any of those projects, I'm simply implying that we probably got the deal, to a large extent, in spite of Loria not because of him.

[Bobbob1313]

Well, I think you also have to consider the pre-'06 situation, don't you? The stadium wasn't just negotiated after the fire sale in 06. They struggled to get a deal done for the entire time they owned the team to get it done; the '06 firesale probably did not help, but they also ran into tons of obstacles pre-'06. I'm sure the firesale hurt their standing, but the franchise as a whole had been looking for public funding since the late 90's without much luck.

[Todd]

I am really excited to see that left side of the infield. Or really the whole infield. Depending what happens with Morrison(stays or goes), Jose Reyes could probably come close to matching the entire 2013 Marlins infield as is by himself.

In 969 ABs last year, Escobar/Hechavarria/Solano combined for a .266/.311/.356 line with 41 2B, 4 3B, and 13 HR. 12 stolen bases and 345 total bases.
In 642 ABs last year, Reyes had a .287/.347/.433 line with 37 2B, 12 3B, and 11 HR. 40 SB and 278 total bases.

[emkayseven]

I am really excited to see that left side of the infield. Or really the whole infield. Depending what happens with Morrison(stays or goes), Jose Reyes could probably come close to matching the entire 2013 Marlins infield as is by himself.

In 969 ABs last year, Escobar/Hechavarria/Solano combined for a .266/.311/.356 line with 41 2B, 4 3B, and 13 HR. 12 stolen bases and 345 total bases.
In 642 ABs last year, Reyes had a .287/.347/.433 line with 37 2B, 12 3B, and 11 HR. 40 SB and 278 total bases.

We increased our power output! We're taking a new course!

[lou]

Escobar will be traded, he makes to much and is blocking Kouzmanoff

[CrimsonCane]

Well, I think you also have to consider the pre-'06 situation, don't you? The stadium wasn't just negotiated after the fire sale in 06. They struggled to get a deal done for the entire time they owned the team to get it done; the '06 firesale probably did not help, but they also ran into tons of obstacles pre-'06. I'm sure the firesale hurt their standing, but the franchise as a whole had been looking for public funding since the late 90's without much luck.

You definitely have to consider efforts they made before 2006, but the obstacles they encountered during that time were expected and nothing more than pure politics.

Consider this: The government had something that the Marlins ownership wanted and ownership was willing to pay a lot of money to get that done. (Look at how much money they spent on reelection campaigns for certain officials and the amount they contributed to help combat Mayor Alvarez's recall) Why would any shrewd politician give them everything they want all at once? How then would they get more money the next time around? If you understand that that is how people will operate in that environment, it's not shocking that they would have some difficulty at the outset.

For a prime example, look at what's happening to Genting's efforts to build a mega casino/resort on the old Herald building site. Florida lawmakers see a very deep pocket that is going to sped lots of lobbying money to get this done. There is no way that they will act in a way that won't extend the amount of time they can count on that money coming to them.

[Namaste]

When the Marlins traded Hanley and Samson came on the LeBatard show, Samson's voice sounded confident. He took calls from bonehead fans who were crying about a "fire-sale" and he handled the calls like a professional. I respected what he did and supported them moving Hanley because most of us here know it was the right decision.

Samson's voice was cracking the majority of the interview last night with LeBatard. He sounded like a guy with active felony warrants who was talking on a pay phone because he was scared for his life.

When you are defending the indefensible your body takes over and your voice and fine motor skills are the first casualties.

Barring an NLCS Championship or a World Series within 3 years (and maybe even that won't heal the wounds), Loria and Samson have lost baseball in South Florida forever.

[Fish Tank Frenzy]

The best is when LeBatard asked him what he thought about the fans wanting Loria to sell the team and not be the owner. His laugh was priceless.