2022-2023 Offseason Thread

[fish16]

according to twitter it just looks like a typo. It was victor mesa jr as the pinch runner

[fish16]

the more i see/hear of groshans and the more i look at hampson, i hope they keep groshans on the opening day roster. He might not ever develop enough power to be a regular, but he is a good contact guy and hits for a decent average, and he can play 3 infield spots. I know there are service time games they can play, but i hope they dont make the roster worse to start the year because of that.

[Namaste]

Dax melted down after a lead off error on some guy playing 1st for us

[lou]

the more i see/hear of groshans and the more i look at hampson, i hope they keep groshans on the opening day roster. He might not ever develop enough power to be a regular, but he is a good contact guy and hits for a decent average, and he can play 3 infield spots. I know there are service time games they can play, but i hope they dont make the roster worse to start the year because of that.

Three things are true here:

The general statement let's not make the roster worse.

It's only 39 days for Groshans in AAA for "1" full season of control added.

He will be in AAA minimum 39 days.


They will live with Burdick, LeBlanc, Amaya, or Hampson for minimum 39 days for the 13th man. (They could also do this with Burdick, but he's 26 where Groshans is 23. I think you'd just let Burdick rip here where that age 29 season of Groshans may be really valuable).


This is fine. Play him 39 games in a row in AAA at exclusively 3B and 1B and see if he is the best option.

[Todd]

Playing service time games for a guy who looks to be, at best, a mediocre utility guy is depressing.

[fish16]

Playing service time games for a guy who looks to be, at best, a mediocre utility guy is depressing.

completely agree. Burdick i can see because there is no spot for him currently and there is a chance he becomes an impact regular. For groshans, to worry about 6 years down the line when we dont even know if he can play but he would potentially be an upgrade off the bench this year, it's just ridiculous. I get it's just 39 days. but we're talking 6 years down the line potentially for a guy who may well be out of baseball at that point.

[lou]

completely agree. Burdick i can see because there is no spot for him currently and there is a chance he becomes an impact regular. For groshans, to worry about 6 years down the line when we dont even know if he can play but he would potentially be an upgrade off the bench this year, it's just ridiculous. I get it's just 39 days. but we're talking 6 years down the line potentially for a guy who may well be out of baseball at that point.

You just answered your own question here for a 23 year old who was picked 12th overall? We don't know? He's 23? Do we agree Braxton Garret's (7th pick of draft) age 24 season was pretty good last year and we're all pretty happy he is controlled through 2028 instead of 2027? Garrett stunk as a 23 year old and showed relatively nothing for years before that. That's this year for Groshans.

Burdick (not a top 12 pick) you don't care as much about as he is 26. Jerar to a slightly lesser extent as 25. They are going to age out as we're talking about getting a post 30 season from them and not top guys at any point. Groshans at 23, you care about 100%. He will be in the minors 39 days and that will neither make or break the season. There aren't too many of them implicated by the Marlins this year thankfully, but Sixto and Groshans they will keep down adequate days for sure. I can see them keeping Jerar down also but he's easier because of the general depth. He needs to be down 2+ months but that happens naturally I bet.

[Namaste]

lou I’m hoping service time is the #1 reason why Sixto is being rolled out so deliberately. 15 pitch bullpens here and there etc.

[Nick]

Yeah I don't really think you can play the 12th pick card with Groshans any more after he was traded for two pretty average middle relievers.

[lou]

Yeah I don't really think you can play the 12th pick card with Groshans any more after he was traded for two pretty average middle relievers.

But they can and will keep him down 39 days which is all I am saying there. You don't throw in the towel on these guys for 39 service days when they are 23 years old and we're talking 13th man on the roster.

[Nick]

But they can and will keep him down 39 days which is all I am saying there. You don't throw in the towel on these guys for 39 service days when they are 23 years old and we're talking 13th man on the roster.

I’m generally of the opinion using young guys off the bench is a bad idea just in general. I just don’t think service time should/will be a factor in the decision.

[Lee Stone]

It wasn't that long ago that I was hopeful that at least one of Burdick, Bleday, Misner, Encarnacion, Scott, Sanchez or De La Cruz would become a solid major league outfielder. Hard times in Little (make that Tiny) Havana.

[lou]

I’m generally of the opinion using young guys off the bench is a bad idea just in general. I just don’t think service time should/will be a factor in the decision.

Not sure how you come to that conclusion when Garrett (who has been a lower ranked prospect than Groshans the last 4 years before last year) and Cabrera have 4 less days of service time than a full year, especially when the Marlins intentionally kept a healthy Garrett down between September 13-22 to maneuver service time. Smart front office policy is to maximize resources (especially as a poor owner franchise) so again, we can't criticize any service time practice because at it is core, it is efficiency and maximizing resources. This should be an across the board policy to not get bogged down in this player versus that player because every guy it works out on, you just made a ton of surplus value with. Plus, that makes a "Kris Bryant" grievance hearing easier as there is no special treatment and they can point to that. I'll keep saying it, the worst call up in franchise history was Jose Fernandez. It is the epitome of what a stupid owner/franchise does and I hope the Marlins never do something that stupid again.

It's also not a large analysis here - Sixto stays down until late July, Groshans mid-May, and all of Eury/Eder/Amaya/Edwards must stay in the minors at least 16 service days until mid-April and preferably 2 1/2 months to try and avoid being a super 2. I'm not sure anyone else rises to the level of caring - Burdick/Jerar are older (they would have to stay down 1 1/2 months each, which I think will happen naturally) and none of the relievers (Simpson, Nardi, Soriano, etc.) likely have the upside to care about preserving another year as relievers are volatile. They too also likely just stay in the minors and it happens naturally. So it's really just some minor maneuvering for Sixto and Groshans (and let's face it, they need the AAA time anyways) and then letting the next wave get to the summer as they do need some more minor league time.

You know what the larger debate is going to be on this one as I don't think anything above is earth shattering - Meyer was hurt on the MLB roster so he is going to end the 2023 season with 1.82 days of service time. Meaning do they try and get him to 1.171 days of service time at the end of 2024 so he'll only be up the last 89 days of the season. That's an early July 2024 return for him, which makes his arrival after Eury, Eder, and Fulton timeline wise. I feel THIS one we are all going to have opinions on but we'll have to see it play out and how healthy his arm is before getting angry.


But yea, I agree an older guy should be on the bench. I'd set current betting odds on a new player outside the organization via a waiver claim/minor trade and Groshans, Burdick, Hampson, LeBlanc, Jerar, Hinojosa, and the others are all in AAA. Is this where we mention they should have just kept Brian Anderson?

[lou]

It wasn't that long ago that I was hopeful that at least one of Burdick, Bleday, Misner, Encarnacion, Scott, Sanchez or De La Cruz would become a solid major league outfielder. Hard times in Little (make that Tiny) Havana.

You do realize DLC is universally considered a high probability breakout candidate with the new swing and Sanchez has elite, Oneil Cruz, level exit velocities? Maybe they don't put it together, but this post is a year premature IMO. I think they will get something here besides Joey Wendle, AJ Puk, and Stallings left leg.

[fish16]

lou can like it or not, but i dont think they are playing service time games with groshans, nor should they. he is a fringe prospect at this point. IF they intended on playing games with him, they wouldnt have brought him up here last year after a truly terrible year last year with Toronto's AAA team after 31 decent games for Jacksonville. If they do it they completely fucked up last year, because to bring him up would have been really stupid when they werent close to contention and you would now be actively making the team worse in a year you are trying to win. Is it a huge impact on the team to keep him down and give hampson that final spot even though hampson is hot garbage? realistically no. But they are clearly trying to win, even if they likely wont be a contender this year absent a huge step up from multiple bats or acquiring another stud bat. Kim is in the last year of her contract i believe. She's not playing for a potential extra year 6 years from now for a player who is likely a rojas level talent. It is way overthinking it.

I'm all for it with potential stars or big time talents like Eury, Meyer, Eder, maybe even fulton at this point, and potentially berry if he ever becomes anything, but for the 10th prospect in a not very good overall minor league system, it's just stupid to actively make your team worse, even if it is just for 40 days. The more likely scenario is he stinks to start the year and they get back the minor league days in the middle of summer when he works on things that mlb teams took advantage of.