2022-2023 Offseason Thread

[fish16]

Castano actually throws harder than Garrett or Cueto. He's probably the first option to move into the rotation as needed.

the difference is cueto and garrett both have good off speed stuff which is how they are effective. Castano throws either his cutter or fastball nearly 60% of the time. Garrett throws his fastball 47% of the time last year and his best pitch is his curveball. Cueto throws his fastball 43% of the time.

[lou]

the difference is cueto and garrett both have good off speed stuff which is how they are effective. Castano throws either his cutter or fastball nearly 60% of the time. Garrett throws his fastball 47% of the time last year and his best pitch is his curveball. Cueto throws his fastball 43% of the time.

Not to quib but I think Garrett's slider is his money pitch.

Lee might be right that Castano might be the 7th SP until Eury/Eder/Sixto prove themselves, but they may opt for Smeltzer(?). Not a big deal though. Hopefully neither get any starts.

[fish16]

Not to quib but I think Garrett's slider is his money pitch.

Lee might be right that Castano might be the 7th SP until Eury/Eder/Sixto prove themselves, but they may opt for Smeltzer(?). Not a big deal though. Hopefully neither get any starts.

im absolutely fine with castano as the 7th guy. He isnt great but he has an ability to get outs and at least not wreck games when he is called into spot start the last few games. As far as him starting the season on the roster, remember they DFA'd him and he didnt elect for free agency so he isnt on the 40 man, so that would be working against him starting the year on the active roster. Depends on the circumstances. If he is going to be counted on at all to be on the roster for a while it would make sense, but if its for a stop gap temporary spot on the roster until someone gets healthy then it probably makes sense to save him in the minors until later in the year when he might be needed. Smeltzer isnt on the 40 man either so they are in the same spot in that regard and they are similar pitchers to begin with.

As of now the bullpen on opening day has the following as locks: Chargois, Barnes, Puk, Floro, Scott, Okert, Garrett. enright will need a spot when he is ready, so that is who the last roster spot will be at some point, but until then we're looking at either some sort of late spring acquisition or Brazoban, Castano, or Smeltzer. Brazoban had a visa issue and still hasnt pitched in a spring trainign game so it's unlikely to be him given that we are 15 days from opening day. Smeltzer has been terrible in spring so he's looking unlikely. So it really comes down to Castano or a late spring addition, which is very possible and happens every year. I'd lean toward that being the way they go. Bryan Hoeing is another possibility. He was terrible when he came up last year but has had a decent spring. But i think the way they will go, and definitely what they should do, is see who is available after teams finalize their roster and make an addition there. We did it last year with Tanner Scott and Cole sulser. Or maybe they waste castano for a month and then DFA him when Enright is finally healthy.

[fish16]

watching these WBC games is such an indication of how poisonous people feel towards this franchise down here. I'm not saying we should have a sell out every night, but for us to have such low attendance in a market that clearly has a lot of baseball fans is sad. Granted, a lot of these fans root for teams like the yankees or mets, but to be so low in attendance in such a hispanic market says a lot. I just want to see this stadium sold out or at least 30k for a marlins game. The stadium gets shit on a lot but when it's full it's a great atmosphere.

[rmc523]

watching these WBC games is such an indication of how poisonous people feel towards this franchise down here. I'm not saying we should have a sell out every night, but for us to have such low attendance in a market that clearly has a lot of baseball fans is sad. Granted, a lot of these fans root for teams like the yankees or mets, but to be so low in attendance in such a hispanic market says a lot. I just want to see this stadium sold out or at least 30k for a marlins game. The stadium gets shit on a lot but when it's full it's a great atmosphere.

I was in the Coconut grove area on saturday, and saw people walking around in various WBC hats, including DR and PR hats.

Baseball fans in the general South Florida area has never been the problem. The problem is this team has been completely irrelevant for 13 years if you're generous and count 2008/9. The only other years there was interest or success was 2012 with the new park and rebrand, and 2020 playoff run.......but as we know, any goodwill for 2012 was nearly immediately destroyed by another teardown after promises it'd be different, and 2020 we couldn't go.
2018 rebuild further skewered people, even if it technically was the right call.....hindsight on that one also sucks with how bad the Yelich/Realmuto deals went.

Jeter/Sherman completely didn't understand (nor do they still) the market and how damaged/abused the fanbase is. Money needs to be invested and show fans ownership is committed, and some winning needs to start, and THEN people will come out. This dipping the toe in approach won't work. Correa+ the other moves that were made would've shown people they mean business.

[lou]

Jeter/Sherman completely didn't understand (nor do they still) the market and how damaged/abused the fanbase is. Money needs to be invested and show fans ownership is committed, and some winning needs to start, and THEN people will come out. This dipping the toe in approach won't work. Correa+ the other moves that were made would've shown people they mean business.

To be devil's advocate here, maybe their perspective is we are not winning this year even with Correa + someone else, so maybe they do understand your point, but internally acknowledge the Yelich move, multiple busted high profile players (VVM, Misner, Scott), Covid loss of minor league season, and multiple major arm problems (Meyer, Bender, Eder) all set their timeline back a few years so it's not 2023 even if they have a lot going for them right now with Jazz, Arraez, the pitching, and a decent subsidiary core. It's maybe 2024 and that's when the faucet goes on to the $125m+ payroll. You know my position is to spend now and develop a culture to help the kids (see Rangers early acquisitions with Seager/Semien knowing they would suck), but from their position, if they are at ground level with the longer fan situation (which they are), what's one more year in the long term view? Let's just wait for Eury, Meyer, Eder, and Fulton for 2024 and then reassess.

Just saying here, I think they do get it and they have determined their best way of showing people they mean business is to produce the everything must go right prospect team (which could really happen in 2024 if everyone stays healthy, the prospects land, and they get "breakouts" from DLC, Sanchez, and Fortes turning into average starting players, etc.) as then they'll have a foundation, and then that "Werth" move is less risky when the team is already pretty good. And yes again, I do understand the everything must go right scenario is unlikely to happen, but this would be a rational take from them as it is admitting they are not the Rangers and can't spend 1-2 years early for not a real playoff run. Which sucks for us, but goes back to the overall issue - Bruce is a poor ass MF for a baseball owner and he should sell.

[lou]

im absolutely fine with castano as the 7th guy. He isnt great but he has an ability to get outs and at least not wreck games when he is called into spot start the last few games. As far as him starting the season on the roster, remember they DFA'd him and he didnt elect for free agency so he isnt on the 40 man, so that would be working against him starting the year on the active roster. Depends on the circumstances. If he is going to be counted on at all to be on the roster for a while it would make sense, but if its for a stop gap temporary spot on the roster until someone gets healthy then it probably makes sense to save him in the minors until later in the year when he might be needed. Smeltzer isnt on the 40 man either so they are in the same spot in that regard and they are similar pitchers to begin with.

As of now the bullpen on opening day has the following as locks: Chargois, Barnes, Puk, Floro, Scott, Okert, Garrett. enright will need a spot when he is ready, so that is who the last roster spot will be at some point, but until then we're looking at either some sort of late spring acquisition or Brazoban, Castano, or Smeltzer. Brazoban had a visa issue and still hasnt pitched in a spring trainign game so it's unlikely to be him given that we are 15 days from opening day. Smeltzer has been terrible in spring so he's looking unlikely. So it really comes down to Castano or a late spring addition, which is very possible and happens every year. I'd lean toward that being the way they go. Bryan Hoeing is another possibility. He was terrible when he came up last year but has had a decent spring. But i think the way they will go, and definitely what they should do, is see who is available after teams finalize their roster and make an addition there. We did it last year with Tanner Scott and Cole sulser. Or maybe they waste castano for a month and then DFA him when Enright is finally healthy.

It's going to be Brazoban, or Castano if he does have an option. Both would be low usage so it wouldn't matter. Smeltzer they would have to guaranteed a $1m salary I believe so he's a desperation option.

None of this matter though. The 13th arm on the staff isn't a huge concern. But it would be awesome if they found a "righty Puk" to enhance this spot.

[rmc523]

To be devil's advocate here, maybe their perspective is we are not winning this year even with Correa + someone else, so maybe they do understand your point, but internally acknowledge the Yelich move, multiple busted high profile players (VVM, Misner, Scott), Covid loss of minor league season, and multiple major arm problems (Meyer, Bender, Eder) all set their timeline back a few years so it's not 2023 even if they have a lot going for them right now with Jazz, Arraez, the pitching, and a decent subsidiary core. It's maybe 2024 and that's when the faucet goes on to the $125m+ payroll. You know my position is to spend now and develop a culture to help the kids (see Rangers early acquisitions with Seager/Semien knowing they would suck), but from their position, if they are at ground level with the longer fan situation (which they are), what's one more year in the long term view? Let's just wait for Eury, Meyer, Eder, and Fulton for 2024 and then reassess.

Just saying here, I think they do get it and they have determined their best way of showing people they mean business is to produce the everything must go right prospect team (which could really happen in 2024 if everyone stays healthy, the prospects land, and they get "breakouts" from DLC, Sanchez, and Fortes turning into average starting players, etc.) as then they'll have a foundation, and then that "Werth" move is less risky when the team is already pretty good. And yes again, I do understand the everything must go right scenario is unlikely to happen, but this would be a rational take from them as it is admitting they are not the Rangers and can't spend 1-2 years early for not a real playoff run. Which sucks for us, but goes back to the overall issue - Bruce is a poor ass MF for a baseball owner and he should sell.

That's a terrible perspective to have, as you can always argue any given year that team x and y are going to be above us, why bother?

Additionally, it seems like EVERY year is an "everything must go right" plan, and by extension there's always a "wait 'til next year when ____ comes up" shift of the goalposts.

I'm just frustrated as a fan, and my interest is waning. I'll still tune in early in the season, but if it's more of the same treading water, I'll check out a month or 2 in....I'm not going to waste my time watching a mediocre product.

I do think we'll wind up around .500 this year, which would be quite an improvement, but it'll be where they should have been last year, and this year should have been an improvement over that.



That said, to your point, attendance last year was the highest of the Sherman era, despite poor play:

2018 - 811,104
2019 - 811,302
2020 - 0
2021 - 642,487*
2022 - 907,487

*2021 had attendance limitations early in the season.


So we'll likely see better attendance despite them still not "going for it" like they should.

[lou]

That's a terrible perspective to have, as you can always argue any given year that team x and y are going to be above us, why bother?

Additionally, it seems like EVERY year is an "everything must go right" plan, and by extension there's always a "wait 'til next year when ____ comes up" shift of the goalposts.

I'm just frustrated as a fan, and my interest is waning. I'll still tune in early in the season, but if it's more of the same treading water, I'll check out a month or 2 in....I'm not going to waste my time watching a mediocre product.

I do think we'll wind up around .500 this year, which would be quite an improvement, but it'll be where they should have been last year, and this year should have been an improvement over that.



That said, to your point, attendance last year was the highest of the Sherman era, despite poor play:

2018 - 811,104
2019 - 811,302
2020 - 0
2021 - 642,487*
2022 - 907,487

*2021 had attendance limitations early in the season.


So we'll likely see better attendance despite them still not "going for it" like they should.

You'd hope so. Those numbers are laughably low. I wonder if the marketing department has pitched to get 80% of Sandy's starts at home?

Frankly, they should be investing in their product now, but if this is about winning the world series only, it's probably next year when the real window begins if the SP lands. So maybe one year the magic aligns and that's when project wolverine is unleashed.

[rmc523]

You'd hope so. Those numbers are laughably low. I wonder if the marketing department has pitched to get 80% of Sandy's starts at home?

Frankly, they should be investing in their product now, but if this is about winning the world series only, it's probably next year when the real window begins if the SP lands. So maybe one year the magic aligns and that's when project wolverine is unleashed.

Oh sure they're low, but at least with them they're real butts in the seats, unlike the Loria inflated numbers where he'd "buy" 1,000s of tickets for $1 and count any ticket they gave away as "attendance" (the last few years were an average of 1.5-6/year IIRC.

Oh well.

I was going to do a breakdown of attendance on Sandy starts vs. other starts but never got around to it. I did do a comparison by day of game (i.e. Mon, Tues, Wed, etc)....wish we could post pictures here.

[lou]

Oh sure they're low, but at least with them they're real butts in the seats, unlike the Loria inflated numbers where he'd "buy" 1,000s of tickets for $1 and count any ticket they gave away as "attendance" (the last few years were an average of 1.5-6/year IIRC.

Oh well.

I was going to do a breakdown of attendance on Sandy starts vs. other starts but never got around to it. I did do a comparison by day of game (i.e. Mon, Tues, Wed, etc)....wish we could post pictures here.

All I see when I read this is why is Carlos Correa not a Marlin. A superstar Puerto Rican shortstop in his prime for years signed to a depressed contract due to concerns over degenerate legs.... where you could just shift him to 3B or 1B because the guy is always going to hit and you don't have prospects in the pipeline to block him anywhere. It's just insane. Hopefully for us he isn't that great next few years so we'll see if they made the right decision. Twins have insane upside with the Buxton/Correa deals literally $100m each low in value for what they bring when playing.

[fish16]

we selected Garrett hampson's contract for some reason. does that mean he is starting the year on the ml roster?

[rmc523]

All I see when I read this is why is Carlos Correa not a Marlin. A superstar Puerto Rican shortstop in his prime for years signed to a depressed contract due to concerns over degenerate legs.... where you could just shift him to 3B or 1B because the guy is always going to hit and you don't have prospects in the pipeline to block him anywhere. It's just insane. Hopefully for us he isn't that great next few years so we'll see if they made the right decision. Twins have insane upside with the Buxton/Correa deals literally $100m each low in value for what they bring when playing.

0 reason to begin with.....though I guess I could understand not wanting to dish out 300M+

Once his market shrank and that contract got sliced nearly in half, we should've been all in.

[lou]

we selected Garrett hampson's contract for some reason. does that mean he is starting the year on the ml roster?

No - he has an option it looks like so he can go up/down so there is space. But, I would say leaning yes and Iglesias/Gurriel start in AAA.

I am assuming Meyer, Bender, Sixto, and Enright are all going on the IL, so they do have room for Gurriell, Iglesias, Hampson, and ________ on a practical level.


Also more importantly, I just saw Luzardo demolished WBC last night and is throwing 98 and the slider is tracking faster. Might be a good time to sign him as a total performance explosion may be happening. I am extremely excited about him.

[lou]

0 reason to begin with.....though I guess I could understand not wanting to dish out 300M+

Once his market shrank and that contract got sliced nearly in half, we should've been all in.

Yep. Give him opt-outs at 8/$200m after years 3, 5, if he wins the MVP, or they win the world series (Minnesota did not extend this). No club options (Minnesota has many), but give him health related player options for years 9 and 10 (which he has with Minnesota). Full no trade (which he has). Everyone is happy. Really a miss IMO, but hey, maybe the medicals are that bad. I wanted them to sign BJ Upton and thought Jeremy Hermida would be Brian Giles so what do I know.